the scoring of Ali vs. Frazier I

[butterfly1964]

Ali hurt Patterson's back with his jabs in middle rounds of that fight. He couldn't fight Ali when his back was good. Patterson played that he was hurt more than he was. That was just his excuse for being beaten so easily, just like Liston when he said his shoulder hurt after stoppage. Everybody finds excuse after losing.

This is true. In the early rounds before his back started bothering him, patterson still couldn't lay a glove on him, so I don't see what the difference would have been if not for the bad back.

[The Noose]

I just finished the video...again...
Technical scoring: 8-6-1 Ali
Winner: Frazier
How is this possible?

The more I watch it, the closer the fight looks. A lot of the rounds that people give to Frazier simply because he was working harder while Ali danced and clinched speak volumes about the 180's people take on these forums. People will often speak of the methods for beating a swarmer, and these tactics tend to include firing quick, point-scoring shots, and clinching; or, overpowering the swarmer with long, powerful punches. Since Ali was hardly capable of the latter, he decided to win the early rounds, and clinch Frazier when he brought the attack in the mid-to-late rounds. In this case, however, Ali is being criticized, and his points taken away for clinching a fighter that relies on being free to set up his power punches. I think that this was a tactic for denying Frazier his power, moreso than a lack of conditioning (or ring rust) on Ali's part.

Don't get me wrong: Frazier is my favorite. I love his style, his work ethic, the way he fired in such controlled bursts; but Ali simply won more rounds based on the scoring system. Period.

Surley the people that critisize Ali for dancing and clinching are right to do so based on the fact that it is illegal to hold (clinch), plus u score for the fighter that was effectivly agressive, in this case that was mostly Frazier. Therefore it is only right to favour the aggressor rather than the clincher.

I dont think Ali simply won more rounds based on the scoring system if that system includes effective agression, ring generalship, cleaner punches being landed, and the quality or power of those punches also being taken into acount. Its not just the number of punches landing.

IMO Frazier ticked those boxes overall. He was the agressor, he was able to push Ali back and trap him on the ropes, working on the inside, whereas Ali couldnt keep Frazier off for very long. And Frazier also landed the bigger punches throughout the fight.

[hemichromis]

This is true. In the early rounds before his back started bothering him, patterson still couldn't lay a glove on him, so I don't see what the difference would have been if not for the bad back.

i thought his back was hurting from the start he seemed very tight a gun shy

i do think a prime patterson with a good back would be a challenge for any fighter without a dynamite punch

[Canelo Phresh]

how did u score it for ali