Larry Holmes Is The Goat Heavyweight

[QueensburyRules]

He probably felt stronger but I'm sure he didn't feel faster/more agile. That's why I rank Ali as the greatest heavyweight of all time. The majority of his greatest wins and accomplishments came after exile/prime when he slowed down. He was beating hall of famers and top contenders with old legs and adjusted his style to compensate for his declining abilities.

- -Dope a rope proof of a fighter hanging on past his prime.

1972 his best ever year as competition goes, not shot.

1975 post George, shot.

[slicksouthpaw16]

- -Dope a rope proof of a fighter hanging on past his prime.

1972 his best ever year as competition goes, not shot.

1975 post George, shot.

A fighter doesn't have to be shot to be past his prime. Like Leonard was vs Hagler or Louis was in the Walcott series etc. Both were past prime but not totally shot. Louis was pretty much shot from Ezzard Charles to the end of his career IMO. There is definitely an "in between".

[QueensburyRules]

- -Athletic prime mid20s to early 30s. Ali returned at age 28, ie prime.

Ended early 30s post George as the timeline that explains his lack of urgency in his fights.

Archie Moore did his best work post prime as his intellect matured that show the multiple forces in play besides the physical.

[slicksouthpaw16]

- -Athletic prime mid20s to early 30s. Ali returned at age 28, ie prime.

Ended early 30s post George as the timeline that explains his lack of urgency in his fights.

Archie Moore did his best work post prime as his intellect matured that show the multiple forces in play besides the physical.

Did you notice any decline in Ali's abilities immediately post exile? Did the Quarry, Frazier Ali look like the one in the Williams, Liston and Folley fights movement, leg and overall speed wise?

[JAB5239]

Did you notice any decline in Ali's abilities immediately post exile? Did the Quarry, Frazier Ali look like the one in the Williams, Liston and Folley fights movement, leg and overall speed wise?

I was just about to bring this up.

[Anthony342]

Never lost until he was 35

Beat Ken Norton (Who Should Have beaten Ali twice for the title)

20 Title Defenses

Beat future champions Mike Weaver, Tim Witherspoon, James "Bonecrusher" Smith, and Trevor Berbick

Beat top contenders like Gerry Cooney and Earnie Shavers

Came back years later and beat undefeated Olympic Gold Medalist Ray Mercer who was the WBO champion, at age 42

Almost beat Oliver McCall, losing a close decision at age 45 vs the man who had just knocked out undefeated Lennox Lewis.

No one has had such longevity along with never losing until he was much older.

No he isn't. It's either Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali. Ali has the resume and is the first 3 time lineal heavyweight champion, Louis has the longevity.

I lean slightly towards Louis, but most people these day will go with Ali.

[Ben Bolt]

Ali ... is the first 3 time lineal heavyweight champion

Just a thought ... Ali had been better with being a 2-time lineal champ, not losing to Spinks the first time around.

[JAB5239]

I don't think Holmes is the greatest, but he is top 7 any way you slice it. And only a fool would leave him out of the top 10 greatest heavyweights. I never liked Holmes until long after his prime was gone and reading his biography. One of my favorite quotes from him...

'I want people to know I'm proud I learned my craft from Ali. I'm prouder of sparring with him when he was young than I am of beating him when he was old.'

- Larry Holmes

[HOUDINI563]

I have Holmes top four all time. The one point that makes me pause was his potential susceptibility to right hands. His over reliance on his jab and his constant dropping of his jab make him a target for the great right hand punchers. Louis knocks him out with his right and although I rate Tyson lower top ten at his best he kos Holmes as well with his right.

Lewis has a chance to do so also but my thought is that Larry beats him via a decision.

[HOUDINI563]

Holding a paper title is meaningless.
Holmes was always the true champion as he had wins vs the top 2 heavyweights as well as the unretired Ali.

Marcianos undefeated record means plenty. He came to the table 49 times and in each case came away with the win. No other heavyweight champion accomplished the same.