Larry Holmes Is The Goat Heavyweight

[soul_survivor]

“Beat Ken Norton (Who Should Have beaten Ali twice for the title)”

Norton beat Ali once when Ali was in the worst shape he ever came into a bout. Ali won both rematches. Only the final bout was for the title.

“20 Title Defenses”

True but he never attempted to beat the other title claimants during his reign.

“Beat future champions Mike Weaver, Tim Witherspoon, James "Bonecrusher" Smith, and Trevor Berbick”

None of these fighters were ever heavyweight champion of the world.

“Beat top contenders like Gerry Cooney and Earnie Shavers.”

Cooney was a carefully managed heavyweight. Only Fed fighters who had no chance to beat him or on the verge of retirement. Shavers was always easy to outbox.

Terrific post...although let's give credit where credits due, he beat very good versions of Shavers and Norton....Ali beat better versions though, so if Holmes is the greatest ever heavyweight, he has to have better wins than that. He does not.

These Holmes threads pop up every few months lol

[MikeyMike100]

IF Holmes had replaced say Jimmy Young and beaten Foreman ( Which I think he would have ) you have a real case for GOAT.

I think Holmes would have beaten Ali much sooner. Maybe 1977. Likely in 1978. He was out of Ali's camp in the mid 1970's because he was too good.

I agree he would've beaten Foreman. Foreman retiring for 10 years hurt Holmes legacy. That would have been a super fight and would've been looked at as Larry Holmes career defining win if it was in say 1980.

[MikeyMike100]

This is why I prefer greatest as 'who you believe was best at their best' as opposed to resume and accomplishments. Because then you can cherry pick accomplishments and use them as your evidence. Moreover, not everyone has the same opportunity to compile equal resumes; so greatness becomes as much of a measurement of when you fought and who your promoter was.

That being written, I've always felt Holmes was a top all time heavyweight, nothing against him being brought up as such. And for those who favor longevity over peak (not me, but to each their own) he can definitely be moved up high on that ladder.

His peak should also be looked at as high as he never lost until he was way older

[MikeyMike100]

I have Holmes in my top 5 but he'll never be greater than Ali, same reason Kobe was never considered better than MJ. Both great, but one clearly modeled his entire game after the other and didn't accomplish as much. I'd take Ali becoming the first to regain the title 3 times, beating a prime Foreman, Frazier and Liston, and having the majority of his best wins coming AFTER he was past his prime over anything Holmes did. I'm saying this as a big Holmes fan too.

I hear you and might agree if Ali beat prime Fraizer. The problem is he lost to Fraizer in the biggest fight between them. The other two times Ali beat him were when Fraizer was older and not quite the same

[MikeyMike100]

I like Larry, but he's one of those that I liked less after I found out more about him. He had a nice reign and nice resume and nice skills, but, WBC solo? That **** was lame. How you going to claim to be tying Marciano when Marciano was the undisputed and you're a single strapper?

Marciano has 7 title wins. Most of his record came on the way up. Thats why this whole undefeated record thing is ******. The real record is Joe Louis with 27 title victories.

[MikeyMike100]

I also agree. Larry Holmes for me is the third or fourth greatest heavyweight of all time, trailing only behind the likes of Marciano, Ali, and Joe Louis.

Hes way ahead of Marciano

[MikeyMike100]

If anything is "overrated" its Tysons fury resume. He hasn't fought Poviekten, White, Louis Ortiz, and Andy ruiz and is content with mismatches like Tom Swartz lol.

Agreed. AJ has the best resume in the division

[MikeyMike100]

Was also lineal, which is just as good as undisputed. So Holmes was still THE guy at heavyweight after beating a shot to hell Ali, taking his Ring belt. Holmes also had the IBF belt at one point when that came into existence, but I agree he should've went for the only other belt (at the time), the WBA strap. Don't know what the deal with that was. Who held that title back then anyway?

The lineal is bull. Shannon Briggs was lineal at one point

[MikeyMike100]

“Beat Ken Norton (Who Should Have beaten Ali twice for the title)”

Norton beat Ali once when Ali was in the worst shape he ever came into a bout. Ali won both rematches. Only the final bout was for the title.

“20 Title Defenses”

True but he never attempted to beat the other title claimants during his reign.

“Beat future champions Mike Weaver, Tim Witherspoon, James "Bonecrusher" Smith, and Trevor Berbick”

None of these fighters were ever heavyweight champion of the world.

“Beat top contenders like Gerry Cooney and Earnie Shavers.”

Cooney was a carefully managed heavyweight. Only Fed fighters who had no chance to beat him or on the verge of retirement. Shavers was always easy to outbox.

"None of these fighters were ever heavyweight champion of the world." They all held major belts at one point in time. You want to say they were never looked at as "The Champ" then that's something I can agree with.

[Marchegiano]

Marciano has 7 title wins. Most of his record came on the way up. Thats why this whole undefeated record thing is ******. The real record is Joe Louis with 27 title victories.

Holmes has 0 that equal Rock's or Joe's.


I agree about Joe though