Where does Tyson actually rank

[JAB5239]

Wow really? First time I've heard a fan on here say that. Most people believe Tyson did it. So you think it was just rough sex then? I remember hearing about a news story years later in the early 2000s where a woman Tyson had sex with caused v aginal injuries/tears. Not sure if I could find it now. Maybe that's what happened with Washington though, who knows now.

I remember comedian Patrice O Neal telling a story on the radio about a girl claiming **** even though it was consensual because it involved more than one guy in the same night and one of his friends was bragging about it. So the girl claimed **** because she didn't wanna have a bad reputation. One guy went on the run, he and the other guy did some time for it. He later went on to say if a girl THINKS no, it could be considered ****. Crazy stuff man.

She didn't seem like no angel to me the times I saw her out. But I'm not going to pretend like I knew her in anything more than passing. I just don't see why any woman would be going with the baddest man on the planet at that time of night and not planning anything. Tyson could have any girl he wanted, he didn't need to commit ****. But like I said, only they know the truth. I'm just giving my opinion. Maybe Washington did think she was ****d, I don't know. And while I'm against **** and find it degrading for any woman, I don't think that if a girl thinks no it should ever be called a ****. She needs to make it clear, so there are no misgivings. As much as I'm against ****, I'm equally against a man being charged for it if it didn't happen. A girl doesn't want a rep so she cries ****? What about the guy getting unjustly accused of it? What happens to his rep? We're living in a messed up world.

[Anthony342]

She didn't seem like no angel to me the times I saw her out. But I'm not going to pretend like I knew her in anything more than passing. I just don't see why any woman would be going with the baddest man on the planet at that time of night and not planning anything. Tyson could have any girl he wanted, he didn't need to commit ****. But like I said, only they know the truth. I'm just giving my opinion. Maybe Washington did think she was ****d, I don't know. And while I'm against **** and find it degrading for any woman, I don't think that if a girl thinks no it should ever be called a ****. She needs to make it clear, so there are no misgivings. As much as I'm against ****, I'm equally against a man being charged for it if it didn't happen. A girl doesn't want a rep so she cries ****? What about the guy getting unjustly accused of it? What happens to his rep? We're living in a messed up world.

Agreed on the rep. Luckily for Patrice and his friend, he was a juvenile, so his record was sealed and he stayed out of any legal trouble after that.

[GelfSara]

I noticed he gets overrated by casuals, but in turn get's underated by Veterans. I'm even guilty of this myself.

The numbers aren't in his favor, even the facts aren't - but we still have intangibles.

Tyson did lose to his best competition. Tyson also lost in his physical prime, so the argument of his prime was basically "when he was serious", which unfortunately is only about 2 years.

We do have evidence that he had drug problems and a lot of life problems however, and he's not the first boxer to have a career that sort of takes a nose dive because of it.

My argument is this though, he did bulldoze some rather decent competition (Spinks, and Holmes). I say Decent because Spinks was a "light heavyweight" coming off a layoff and Holmes was coming off a very long layoff. Both of these wins are very overated but the fact still remains he did stop Spinks in one round, which is impressive.

How does everyone think he would actually do, when he was hungry and mentally focused? He seemed like he had some fight in him and he proved his chin was pretty good as well.

For example, Tyson vs Bowe? If Tyson is undefeated and is coming in confident, how does this fight play out? Does he win a decision?

Tyson vs Lewis, is a really tough one because of Lewis' track record of not always showing up. Lewis never looked that great vs Holyfield, and that was years after the Tyson vs Holyfield fights.

I think this type of situation starts showing up because by the 90's boxing had already turned into a marketing heavy sport where the best were dodging tough fights in order to make more money and have a longer and safer career.

Holyfield was one of the few fighters that fought everyone, hes also the guy with almost 10 losses on his record, which is pretty similar to every fighter from past eras. It's getting to the point where losses can almost mean a fighter is more proven than a fighter with no losses and had a heavily risk managed career.

Anyways back to Tyson, it's just bothersome how he has this massive intangible floating over his career, where nobody actually knows how good he was. You can't accurately predict how Tyson would do vs other great fighters.

A win / loss ratio on a record is pretty much a statistic for casuals. To properly judge a fighter you need to be able to break down his resume and determine the value of each win based on the circumstances.

You really have to have been alive at the time to fully appreciate what an unparalleled waste of talent Mike Tyson was, and why so many still feel so betrayed by what happened. In short--when he fired Kevin Rooney (after the Spinks fight, before the Bruno fight) Mike appeared to virtually everyone alive at the time to be en route to be becoming certainly the greatest heavyweight ever, if not the greatest boxer ever. He was perfectly managed by Jacobs and Cayton, wonderfully trained by Rooney, had an absolutely unique combination of speed, power, elusiveness and chin, and was getting better, almost fight-by-fight. The plan was for Mike to go 60-0, retire not only undefeated but as far-and-away the richest athlete ever and an American hero. Obviously that didn't happen--and the decline after Tyson fired Rooney was immediate and progressive--although not everyone picked up on it until Douglas in 1990.

To get some taste of how Mike was perceived at the time, watch the entire Tyson-Spinks show:

https://********/TRtYaFa_eXg

[QueensburyRules]

You really have to have been alive at the time to fully appreciate what an unparalleled waste of talent Mike Tyson was, and why so many still feel so betrayed by what happened. In short--when he fired Kevin Rooney (after the Spinks fight, before the Bruno fight) Mike appeared to virtually everyone alive at the time to be en route to be becoming certainly the greatest heavyweight ever, if not the greatest boxer ever. He was perfectly managed by Jacobs and Cayton, wonderfully trained by Rooney, had an absolutely unique combination of speed, power, elusiveness and chin, and was getting better, almost fight-by-fight. The plan was for Mike to go 60-0, retire not only undefeated but as far-and-away the richest athlete ever and an American hero. Obviously that didn't happen--and the decline after Tyson fired Rooney was immediate and progressive--although not everyone picked up on it until Douglas in 1990.

To get some taste of how Mike was perceived at the time, watch the entire Tyson-Spinks show:

https://********/TRtYaFa_eXg

- -This is the era I lived for, the best ever.

[Tatabanya]

She didn't seem like no angel to me the times I saw her out. But I'm not going to pretend like I knew her in anything more than passing. I just don't see why any woman would be going with the baddest man on the planet at that time of night and not planning anything. Tyson could have any girl he wanted, he didn't need to commit ****. But like I said, only they know the truth. I'm just giving my opinion. Maybe Washington did think she was ****d, I don't know. And while I'm against **** and find it degrading for any woman, I don't think that if a girl thinks no it should ever be called a ****. She needs to make it clear, so there are no misgivings. As much as I'm against ****, I'm equally against a man being charged for it if it didn't happen. A girl doesn't want a rep so she cries ****? What about the guy getting unjustly accused of it? What happens to his rep? We're living in a messed up world.

Desiree Washington craved to be the star woman of a huge celebrity, it's that simple. She wanted to become the new Robin Givens. When she realized that Tyson was having none of it and just wanted to have a night's sex, she cried "****".

They framed him, and I strongly believe that Don King was not extraneous to the overall plot. Just remember the insane amount of money generated by the "He's Back" propaganda...

[Tatabanya]

You really have to have been alive at the time to fully appreciate what an unparalleled waste of talent Mike Tyson was, and why so many still feel so betrayed by what happened. In short--when he fired Kevin Rooney (after the Spinks fight, before the Bruno fight) Mike appeared to virtually everyone alive at the time to be en route to be becoming certainly the greatest heavyweight ever, if not the greatest boxer ever. He was perfectly managed by Jacobs and Cayton, wonderfully trained by Rooney, had an absolutely unique combination of speed, power, elusiveness and chin, and was getting better, almost fight-by-fight. The plan was for Mike to go 60-0, retire not only undefeated but as far-and-away the richest athlete ever and an American hero. Obviously that didn't happen--and the decline after Tyson fired Rooney was immediate and progressive--although not everyone picked up on it until Douglas in 1990.

To get some taste of how Mike was perceived at the time, watch the entire Tyson-Spinks show:

https://********/TRtYaFa_eXg

We can thank Don King and Robin Givens for ruining all of the above.

[Tatabanya]

- -This is the era I lived for, the best ever.

Me too.

Those who were not there at the time - or sheer Tyson haters for no apparent reason, if you prefer - simply can't understand. That's why I forgive them.

[thebrownbomber_]

Desiree Washington craved to be the star woman of a huge celebrity, it's that simple. She wanted to become the new Robin Givens. When she realized that Tyson was having none of it and just wanted to have a night's sex, she cried "****".

They framed him, and I strongly believe that Don King was not extraneous to the overall plot. Just remember the insane amount of money generated by the "He's Back" propaganda...

King literally hired a tax lawyer for Tyson. Wether he really ****d her or not, I do not want to say since I am no authority on this, but that he had a terribly unfair trial has to be conceded.

[thebrownbomber_]

We can thank Don King and Robin Givens for ruining all of the above.

Tyson detractors will write Robin Givens and Don King as mere excuses, but there is documented proof of Mike Tysons team complaining about how Robin Givens was taking over Mike. For example, in the Documentary "The fallen Champ", Bill Cayton said Robin Givens was saying things like "Im miss Tyson and Im taking over" while Don King was robbing everyones purse.

[Tatabanya]

Tyson detractors will write Robin Givens and Don King as mere excuses, but there is documented proof of Mike Tysons team complaining about how Robin Givens was taking over Mike. For example, in the Documentary "The fallen Champ", Bill Cayton said Robin Givens was saying things like "Im miss Tyson and Im taking over" while Don King was robbing everyones purse.

Givens was a celeb hunter, she even had a relationship with Eddie Murphy and Michael Jordan - among others - before Tyson. Her mother, Ruth Roper, was even worse than her.

King sent a deteriorated, aging Muhammad Ali to face a hungry young Larry Holmes, being well aware that Ali's brain scan had showed abnormal results prior to the fight. Enough said.

One thing is watching YouTube clips and surrender to a feeling of hatred; another is studying before talking. I have read so many books about Tyson - including those written by his prosecutors - that every piece of nonsense spewed by the superficial hater of your choice just makes me laugh by now.

Not to mention that I was in my mid-twenties during Tyson's golden era. I was there at the right moment, in a word.