Where does Tyson actually rank

[JAB5239]

- -No excuse for U not studying up.

The Foreman fight was a done deal when the Chinese offered $25 mil in 1990. Before consummation, the Tiananmen massacre occurred. The Buster fight was the poor replacement.

No matter that post prison now entering the cruel joke phase of his career as a sharecropper for DKing, yeah, he ducked George, yet in his 18 yr old debut, he was a record setter cleaning out the stink of DKing and Tubsy Lar to consolidate the 4 belts.

No it wasn't a done deal. First off it was being promoted by a guy who had never promoted a fight before. Second and more importantly neither Foreman nor Tyson had formally agreed.

[Anthony342]

That's because he avoided or tried to avoid everyone who could have tested those "intangibles". Like I said we have never actually seen him face big punchers with great chins while his era was filled with them, the only defenses about this are excuses.

Which truly tough matchups did he ever accept when he was great? Evander Holyfield and ONLY because he and his team thought Holyfield was completely shot. Then there's Lewis when he had nothing left to lose and desperate for a big pay day. He ducked Lewis in the 90s when he was still a great fighter.

So Tyson was a carefully crafted phony product and even then he still was soundly beaten in his prime by a journeyman.

You think there are question marks because of 'intangibles' but they actually answer all of your questions: A man who doesn't have the confidence to face greatness will not achieve it. The cause of the intangibles answer the questions about how good he was. He did not have the heart to face and beat true ATG's.

Good points. Just one quick question. Wasn't Tyson set to face Holyfield if he were to beat Douglas? And then wasn't that fight scheduled again later but then cancelled after Tyson went to prison? Or are you saying this fight could have been made before then or sooner than 1996 when Tyson was released from prison?

[thebrownbomber_]

Good points. Just one quick question. Wasn't Tyson set to face Holyfield if he were to beat Douglas? And then wasn't that fight scheduled again later but then cancelled after Tyson went to prison? Or are you saying this fight could have been made before then or sooner than 1996 when Tyson was released from prison?

Tyson should have fought Holyfield in 1997 not 1996. He shouldve faced Ray Mercer as a tuneup, and maybe then young lennox. I personally think Mike from 96 beats both because he was actually sharp in that Bruno rematch.

[billeau2]

Tyson should have fought Holyfield in 1997 not 1996. He shouldve faced Ray Mercer as a tuneup, and maybe then young lennox. I personally think Mike from 96 beats both because he was actually sharp in that Bruno rematch.

lets get you repped. Green K for general posting quality. Damn won't let me. I will do so when they let me again...

[Tatabanya]

Wasn't Tyson set to face Holyfield if he were to beat Douglas?

Yes he was. Many people seem to conveniently forget about this "insignificant" detail..

This missed fight is the axis around which the impossibility of truly rating Tyson revolves. Had he fought and beaten Holyfield in 1991, which was very possible, there would have been a completely different scenario for both fighters.

[QueensburyRules]

No it wasn't a done deal. First off it was being promoted by a guy who had never promoted a fight before. Second and more importantly neither Foreman nor Tyson had formally agreed.

- -U illiteracy changes nothing I stated.

[JAB5239]

- -U facts changes nothing I lie about.

Of course they don't. It's c*cktail hour somewhere, go have another one and regale some strangers with your homespun bull*hit

Good to see you finally admitting what a liar you are though. Tell the bartender I'll take care of your tab.

[Tatabanya]

Tyson should have fought Holyfield in 1997 not 1996. He shouldve faced Ray Mercer as a tuneup, and maybe then young lennox. I personally think Mike from 96 beats both because he was actually sharp in that Bruno rematch.

According to your previous reply to one of my posts, Bruno was shot in the 90s. Thus, being sharp against a shot titleholder does not look like a valid reason to believe that Tyson would have beaten Lewis and Holyfield in 1996 or 1997.

The fact is, post-prison Tyson was already a semi-ruined fighter. The last significant version of Tyson was 1990-91, when he destroyed Alex Stewart and beat Ruddock twice, with Richie Giachetti as trainer. That Tyson would have had a good chance to beat both Holyfield and Lewis.

From 1995 on, no way. His decline was evident, in hindsight. We were blinded by the quick KOs vs the likes of Bruno and Seldon, but the real Tyson was not that one. Perhaps the very last glimpse of him was seen, absurdly enough, at the beginning of the second Holyfield fight, where he looked strong and focused before the headbutts and the bite.

[JAB5239]

According to your previous reply to one of my posts, Bruno was shot in the 90s. Thus, being sharp against a shot titleholder does not look like a valid reason to believe that Tyson would have beaten Lewis and Holyfield in 1996 or 1997.

The fact is, post-prison Tyson was already a semi-ruined fighter. The last significant version of Tyson was 1990-91, when he destroyed Alex Stewart and beat Ruddock twice, with Richie Giachetti as trainer. That Tyson would have had a good chance to beat both Holyfield and Lewis.

From 1995 on, no way. His decline was evident, in hindsight. We were blinded by the quick KOs vs the likes of Bruno and Seldon, but the real Tyson was not that one. Perhaps the very last glimpse of him was seen, absurdly enough, at the beginning of the second Holyfield fight, where he looked strong and focused before the headbutts and the bite.

You're both making very good points in my opinion. Tyson certainly wasn't the same fighter, but he would have benefited from a tune up with someone like Mercer in preparation for Holyfield. Would he have beat Evander had that been the scenario that played out? I tend to doubt it at that point and time, but it certainly brings a better Tyson come fight night.

[Tatabanya]

You're both making very good points in my opinion. Tyson certainly wasn't the same fighter, but he would have benefited from a tune up with someone like Mercer in preparation for Holyfield. Would he have beat Evander had that been the scenario that played out? I tend to doubt it at that point and time, but it certainly brings a better Tyson come fight night.

Thanks.

It would have been interesting to see Tyson against Mercer, but I still think that three years in a prison would destroy the engine of whatever heavyweight there is. One thing is someone like Foreman, who spent ten years out of the game preaching and living a regular life before starting his long journey back.

But jail is jail, no way a fighting machine like Tyson could have ever returned to his old self after that. And we're not even considering what was happening around him with King, all those money leechers and bětches, etc. I mean, after he had done his time there was not a single week without some woman telling she had been ****d or ******ed by Tyson.