Johnson - Flynn most complete film of the fight

[QueensburyRules]

I posted the link to the video of Cooper, his manager, Ali and Dundee immediately after the fight. Nobody said there was a delay. The one reporter even asked Dundee if calling the ref over to point out the tear in the palm of the glove gave him more time, and Dundee says NO.

(LET ME REPEAT THAT. Dundee was asked if calling the ref over to point out the tear resulted in Ali getting more time to recover, and DUNDEE says no.)

The complete film is availalbe. The postfight comments by both teams are available in the link.

Before international satellite feeds, US fighters used to go to Europe to box and come home with all kinds of stories. Dundee told stories about the Cooper fight for decades because it wasn't available to watch in the US for decades. Then it was ... and everyone wondered where the time delay to replace the glove was ... because we'd been hearing that story for years.

But it never happened. Sorry. The myth was shown to be just that a long time ago. You must not have been keeping up.

The glove was never replaced. There was no long delay. It never happened.

- - Somebody fergot to ask Angie and Cooper along with other witnesses that say it happened.

[Ivich]

- - Somebody fergot to ask Angie and Cooper along with other witnesses that say it happened.

We have Dundee's opinion in his autobiography,or at least I have,and its totally at odds with your trolling.Get yourself a life fella!

[QueensburyRules]

We have Dundee's opinion in his autobiography,or at least I have,and its totally at odds with your trolling.Get yourself a life fella!

- - Angie comments appear in dozens of boxing books...duH!!!

[JAB5239]

- - Angie comments appear in dozens of boxing books...duH!!!

https://********/8hwn2mqNI1I

Where is the delay? Where is this huge conspiracy you speak of?

[QueensburyRules]

https://********/8hwn2mqNI1I

Where is the delay? Where is this huge conspiracy you speak of?

- - In the splice. Y U axked?

[JAB5239]

- - In the splice. Y U axked?

There is no splice, and you have provided no proof of one either. Just another one of your crazy conspiracy theories.

[QueensburyRules]

There is no splice, and you have provided no proof of one either. Just another one of your crazy conspiracy theories.

- - Gonna let you tell Dundee and Cooper that in person....

[Willie Pep 229]

Putting the 'time' issue to the side . . .

It's looks to me like it's the cut man (standing to Dundee's left) is the guy that actually gives Clay (Ali) the smelling sauce.

Both in the movement of his arm and Ali's reaction seems to suggest this to me. He uses the sauce twice and both times his hands are right below Ali's nose and both times Ali's face reacts.

Dundee always claims he had the smelling sauce hidden in a towel. Which is possible because all we can see is Dundee's ass.

But watch the cut man's hands as Dundee moves towards the referee to complain about the glove.

Also those are really loose ropes. I wonder if Ali would have gone down in a (tight) four rope ring?

[HOUDINI563]

This is the full fight. Lots of grabbing a short, limited man in Flynn . I did not say Flynn was winning at the time of the DQ. The poster known as Houdlni lies! Johnson was not holding you say? LOL. Good grief, just disappear.

This was not a case of Johnson having his way with a much shorter and lighter Burns. It could have been another Marvin Hart moment, where Johnson faded during the second half of the 20 rounds and lost, except there were 45 round to fight here under the Las Vegas sun in July. Willard as we know came on later to wear Johnson down in 26 rounds.

Opinions from those at ringside may shock you! Read them - Dr. Z.



W.W. Naughton

That Johnson had scored the most punches and had brought the most blood was something that could not be denied, but to say he looked a winner at the time of the interference is a different matter. It was the opinion of the majority of the spectators that if Flynn could have kept his temper and fought cleanly he could have worn Johnson down.


Sandy Griswold

Jack Johnson is a great fighter, but luckier than he is great. After being battered in the fiercest and most merciless style for nine rounds this afternoon, he was awarded a victory over Jim Flynn simply because Referee Ed Smith lacked the per****uity to distinguish between the manner and mode of fouling both men adopted early in the blood fray. He considered the offending of the awful white demon from Pueblo the most flagrant, and for this reason gave the fight to the black, but not on account of his fouling, but because the men had agreed that he should give the man whom he thought had the better of it on the occasion of any interference by the officers of the law or otherwise.

This occurred after one minute and ten seconds in the ninth round, when both men were swathed in gore and fighting like raging beasts in an inferno.
...
Yet one was as guilty as the other, and as far as the breaking of the Queensberry code was concerned, both were equally culpable. The trouble was Flynn's offense was both the most palpable and the most damaging, as he had been shaded in a majority of the rounds and had shed the most of life's red fluid. Mr. Smith considered his course justifiable in awarding the verdict to Johnson when Captain Fornoff of the mounted rangers, with several of his wild and wooly men, with hands on their big guns, leaped up over the press chairs and into the arena and called a halt.

My! Oh, my! What a glorious intervention that was to Jack Johnson. What a marvelous dispensation of providence in the very nick of time! With his massive black jaw golterous and awry from the terrific overhand left crashes Flynn had landed on it, with his mouth exuding clots of thick and agglutinative blood and his stomach hammered back flat against his vertebrae, Edward Smith failed to see that he was a rumbling shell of his former manhood and in a few more rounds would have been beaten stiff. But Flynn, with his split and fractured nose, his face a mask of smeary gore and his whole torso and upper limbs swathed as in a scarlet sweater, his eyes, wild, fierce and terrible, with the ravages of hatred, vindictiveness and victory but his form upright, rigorous and replete with savage life and earnestness, was the beaten man and according to the compact entered into before the fight, was entitled to all the glory of being denominated as the victorious winner.

While it was undoubtedly a mistake of Smith's it was certainly as he and many others saw it, but a greater mistake of Flynn's. With absolute victory within his grasp, he, in his hatred and passion, tossed it away. There was no call for his repeated butting the negro under the chin, he was winning with most astounding rapidity as it was, and he could well afford to have withstood the short-sightedness of the referee, until, in a round or two more, he would have had Jack Johnson, the black champion of the world, either unconscious or groveling at his feet.


T.S. Andrews

These yells had no effect on Johnson. The black even pushed out his stomach at times for Flynn to hit at, just to show the white what little chance he had when Johnson wanted to block him. Yet Flynn did hurt Johnson at times and in a long fight would have had a splendid chance.
...
Flynn made the same mistake that Tommy Burns did in Australia. He tried to carry the fight to Johnson and rough it--just what the colored man wanted. Flynn had one chance and that was to act on the defensive and carry the fight along fifteen or twenty rounds to learn whether Jack could stand the pace.
...
It was a case of the matador toying with the bull, for Johnson certainly toyed with Flynn. There is no denying that Flynn was as strong as a young bull and full of fight, but that is all the more reason why he should have reserved his strength and played to wear down the big fellow.


Otto Floto

There is just a slight chance that destiny knocked at the door of Jim Flynn yesterday afternoon and received a cruel blow that swept away all the chances Jim Flynn will ever have of becoming the world's heavyweight champion. Flynn's foul tactics and over officiousness on the part of Captain Fornoff spoiled what probably would have given the white man an excellent opportunity to wear the crown of supremacy in the realm of fistiana.

Both Johnson and Flynn violated the rules on the Queensberry code. Flynn probably to a greater extent than Johnson. To have disqualified one would have been an injustice unless the other also received the same deal. Johnson continually held and hit his opponent. Flynn made use of his "bean" in a fashion that left no doubt of his intentions.
...
When the battle was stopped both men were strong and able to continue for some rounds further. Neither had been punished to any great extent. The cut on Flynn's nose bled profusely, but outside of that he was absolutely uninjured.

Probably the inexperience of Captain Fornoff in such matters was responsible for his actions. The blood may have frightened him to a degree quite unnecessary to call for the stopping of the battle. Mind, I don't want to be understood as saying that Flynn would have beaten Johnson, but his chances to score brackets were of the best at the time the fight was stopped. Johnson is still a great champion. He is cunning and shrewd and manages to cover up his transgressions of the rules in a manner that is surprising. But he is not the Jack Johnson of two years ago. He is not the formidable fighting machine that set the world wondering at Reno.


John I. Day

For his three months of training, all Jim Flynn has to show is a badly battered face surrounding a broken nose. He did not even make a friend by the showing he gave today. Still, there were some, and among them such a good judge of fights and fighters as Spider Kelly, who declared that had the fight been allowed to go along to a more natural ending instead of being murdered so early, the "white hope" might finally have worn the worried negro to the canvas.

It is true that Johnson showed signs of punishment and long before the wind-up the smile had been abandoned. Though battered, cut and bloody, the white man was at all times willing, and undoubtedly he did land some telling blows in the midriffs of the champion. Never before has Johnson been known to complain to the referee that he was getting the worst of the milling. Yet in the sixth, seventh and eighth rounds he had complaints to make.

No. Overwhelmingly eye witness's called this bout a complete mismatch. The eye witness comments could not be more one sided in favor of Johnson.

The idea of Johnson’s defensive abilities inside were well written about. Fleischer wrote of Johnson tapping opponents elbows to deaden body punches. Here is another article right after the Flynn that describes quite vividly these skills.

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...1912&proxtext=

Once again it was a totally one sided fight.

[QueensburyRules]

Putting the 'time' issue to the side . . .

It's looks to me like it's the cut man (standing to Dundee's left) is the guy that actually gives Clay (Ali) the smelling sauce.

Both in the movement of his arm and Ali's reaction seems to suggest this to me. He uses the sauce twice and both times his hands are right below Ali's nose and both times Ali's face reacts.

Dundee always claims he had the smelling sauce hidden in a towel. Which is possible because all we can see is Dundee's ass.

But watch the cut man's hands as Dundee moves towards the referee to complain about the glove.

Also those are really loose ropes. I wonder if Ali would have gone down in a (tight) four rope ring?

- - They rushed to help Ali up at the bell and led him to the convenient corner 10' away. Ali with his fixed stare eyes didn't get up himself, but after saying that I'll watch the clip again with verification or corrections as needed.