Mike Weaver vs Cleveland Williams

[billeau2]

So wait, in the world of straight-jacket man Marshall and Martin hit harder than Coetzee.

Ali was too strong and forced Liston to quit. But somehow a killer like Coetzee fails!?!?!?

Strange little stalker, I think it's time for your meds.

Ali wasn't too strong, he was too fast. I have to explain this to you and then you accuse me of stalking you Pookie?

Shavers hit hard, does that make him better than Liston also? Duhh!

A killer like Coetzee lol... your not for real man!

[Rusty Tromboni]

Ali wasn't too strong!

Oh, so now you know better than Angelo Dundee!?!?

Is it cozy in that straight-jacket?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Ali wasn't too strong, he was too fast.

This is actually a nice summation of you're inability to conceive of the world as it is. In your mind everything is black and white. You construct false bifurcations: it's either A or B, never both, never C.

Ali was indeed too fast for liston. More specifically his reflexes were too fast for Liston. But his strength helped him too. You can see that, and Uncle Angelo himself commented on it.

And while Clay made some mistakes his footwork and style were also problematic for Liston.

So you see, saying something miopic like "he was too fast", is true, but it's not the whole truth. That's where you struggle with every topic, as you inevitably make it too simplistic.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Shavers hit hard, does that make him better than Liston also? Duhh!

Again, your true colors show through.

Shavers looks like an easy target because he wasn't a champion, and he's known for being very limited, but look at who he fought:

Ellis
Young
Quarry
Tillis
Holmes
Lyle
Norton
Ali

Liston never fought anyone that good. He definitely doesn't have anything like a 1st Rd. KO over Norton on his record. Shavers was a limited fighter but he proved himself a true fighter none the less. Can't say the same for Old Quit on the Stool.

[Rusty Tromboni]

A killer like Coetzee lol... your not for real man!

OK, so if Coetzee wasn't a killer, what was he?

He didn't build his reputation beating undersized Floyd Patterson, who wasn't even old enough to legally drink. He gained a reputation as a scary, if limited and poorly conditioned, fighter against the likes of Spinks, Weaver, Thomas, LeDoux, Dokes, Tillis, Tate, Bruno, Snipes and Page. For a guy with only 40 Pro fights that's a fantastic catalog. More impressive than Holmes' defenses. Obviously he lost some... some he shouldn't have lost. And obviously he won some... and not simply on the merit of his offensive ability.

While he lacked the immense depth of skill, he was a lot like Post-Montreal Duran: you didn't know what condition he'd arrive in, but as long as you could survive the initial onslaught, your chances of winning improved exponentially with each passing round.

But you'll insist a guy who lost to a journeyman Light Heavyweight is better because "he did a step and a half thing". Seriously, that's all you know about Boxing!?



Strange little creeper, why do you make me do this to you, why do you have such daddy issues? Can you stop making this about you and me, and your weird obsession with Liston?

[billeau2]

Oh, so now you know better than Angelo Dundee!?!?

Is it cozy in that straight-jacket?

U proof U can't fix ****** (thank you Queen B).

[billeau2]

This is actually a nice summation of you're inability to conceive of the world as it is. In your mind everything is black and white. You construct false bifurcations: it's either A or B, never both, never C.

Ali was indeed too fast for liston. More specifically his reflexes were too fast for Liston. But his strength helped him too. You can see that, and Uncle Angelo himself commented on it.

And while Clay made some mistakes his footwork and style were also problematic for Liston.

So you see, saying something miopic like "he was too fast", is true, but it's not the whole truth. That's where you struggle with every topic, as you inevitably make it too simplistic.

Hey moron... I am the one who convalutes things remember? Now I am simplistic? Almost every other day I break down physical attributes of styles and fighters... and when I say Ali's speed was the main problem that flumuxed Liston you want to call me simplistic? YOu see what a moron you are Pook?

[billeau2]

Again, your true colors show through.

Shavers looks like an easy target because he wasn't a champion, and he's known for being very limited, but look at who he fought:

Ellis
Young
Quarry
Tillis
Holmes
Lyle
Norton
Ali

Liston never fought anyone that good. He definitely doesn't have anything like a 1st Rd. KO over Norton on his record. Shavers was a limited fighter but he proved himself a true fighter none the less. Can't say the same for Old Quit on the Stool.

Liston fought Ali remember? Nice strawman.

[billeau2]

OK, so if Coetzee wasn't a killer, what was he?

He didn't build his reputation beating undersized Floyd Patterson, who wasn't even old enough to legally drink. He gained a reputation as a scary, if limited and poorly conditioned, fighter against the likes of Spinks, Weaver, Thomas, LeDoux, Dokes, Tillis, Tate, Bruno, Snipes and Page. For a guy with only 40 Pro fights that's a fantastic catalog. More impressive than Holmes' defenses. Obviously he lost some... some he shouldn't have lost. And obviously he won some... and not simply on the merit of his offensive ability.

While he lacked the immense depth of skill, he was a lot like Post-Montreal Duran: you didn't know what condition he'd arrive in, but as long as you could survive the initial onslaught, your chances of winning improved exponentially with each passing round.

But you'll insist a guy who lost to a journeyman Light Heavyweight is better because "he did a step and a half thing". Seriously, that's all you know about Boxing!?



Strange little creeper, why do you make me do this to you, why do you have such daddy issues? Can you stop making this about you and me, and your weird obsession with Liston?

Coetze was a journeyman you idiot! lol.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Hey moron... I am the one who convalutes things remember? Now I am simplistic? Almost every other day I break down physical attributes of styles and fighters... and when I say Ali's speed was the main problem that flumuxed Liston you want to call me simplistic? YOu see what a moron you are Pook?

Another supper of gefilte fish got you sour, I see.

It's a damn shame Dundee died before meeting you. That poor dope went to his grave thinking he knew something about Boxing.