Langford or Tunney?

[Rusty Tromboni]

I like the way Shoulder Roll handled the question. I have a slightly different take on why I think Tunney might have been just a little bit greater.

Tunney came up at a time in boxing when two distinct styles were colliding. You had the older hands held naturally, waist level, trap setting, parrying, and use of the back foot and grapple, along with the new Dempsey imprompture: Squared up, small steps in, head movement, body pivots, a focus and emphasis on punches, including to the body, and in combination. Louis would go on to become a sort of apex for the puncher under Blackburn, a natural continuation from Jack...where the lead became a jab that functioned as a sledge hammer/range finder.

If you watch Tunney fight, you will see elements of both approaches...something somewhat unusual. We see Corbet mentoring Tunney...and Corbet, despite never fighting bare knuckle, used the boxing vocabulary for this style. And then we see Greb, who also worked with Tunney, and we see the punches at work for Gene.

Tunney was one of a few who could actually use a lead, or a jab, could trap your arm in the grapple, or go to the body with superb body punches. he had so much in his tool box. I personally rank Tunney very high on the list of ATG fighters.

Langford was a remarkable fighting man. Strong as an oxe, trained in the grapple and to hit with both hands... I would not fault anyone for seeing him as better than Gene. But for me, the ability to have the ability to use elements of both approaches, and to succeed so much in so doing, makes Tunney one of the very best of all time.

Well, said. He was a stablemate of Leonard. I always suspected Leonard and Co. had a lot to do with his expedient development. Both were crafty Boxer-Punchers. Gene was a lot like Mayweather, too: he carefully crafted his career, but he really was a genius. I really don't think it's unfair to say that his retirment, while wise and well-deserved, cost us one of the absolute greatest championships Boxing could have ever known.

Like I said in that other thread comparing Stribling and Moore, this era was Boxing's absolute best. So even guys who looked OK, were actually pretty remarkable. I feel bad that after, Tunney and Dempsey, Braddock is probably the best well-known. There really were a lot of remarkable fighters, and it's hard to imagine fighters (like Sam) who excelled in weaker eras having done so well in this time period. For Tunney to rise to the top really says a lot.

[billeau2]

Well, said. He was a stablemate of Leonard. I always suspected Leonard and Co. had a lot to do with his expedient development. Both were crafty Boxer-Punchers. Gene was a lot like Mayweather, too: he carefully crafted his career, but he really was a genius. I really don't think it's unfair to say that his retirment, while wise and well-deserved, cost us one of the absolute greatest championships Boxing could have ever known.

Like I said in that other thread comparing Stribling and Moore, this era was Boxing's absolute best. So even guys who looked OK, were actually pretty remarkable. I feel bad that after, Tunney and Dempsey, Braddock is probably the best well-known. There really were a lot of remarkable fighters, and it's hard to imagine fighters (like Sam) who excelled in weaker eras having done so well in this time period. For Tunney to rise to the top really says a lot.

Tunney may have retired relatively early because of his passion for reading. I think he wanted to keep his noodle in tact. As a boxer puncher he managed to beat Dempsey and Greb.

[JAB5239]

Again, denial is not a defense.

Playing ****** isn't an argument.

The fight is on-line.

20 years ago you could get away for peddling that ****** rumor.

Today, you're exposing yourself as either: lazy, ******, scared... or any combination of the three.

I get it. You feel trapped and isolated. Instead of making it worse for yourself, you could just say, "Sorry, I was wrong", and it would be all over. But if you keep pressing me, I will expose you. I'm not even trying to be mean about it. I just don't like seeing fans peddle lies.

If that feels too much like hari kari, you can simply tell me something Langford did better than Tunney. Something good, of course. Not something like "got punched in the face", "missed when swinging wildly", "went off balance", "got ****d in the ring", "picked on smaller men".

Lol, PLEASE, go ahead and expose me. 😄

[travestyny]

Johnson was offered many fights overseas against these opponents and turned them down.

I think there was a situation at one point where he asked for more money against some of them so the fights didn't come off, but he for sure also accepted the fights and had the fights pulled from him. If you want to read the proof of that, just let me know. I can pass the info. on to you. I think I put it in a thread actually. I'll grab the link. Let me know what you think when you get a chance if you'd like.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=820322

[The Old LefHook]

Such malarkey! There is not a black fighter alive who was avoided by Tunney!

[GhostofDempsey]

To say Tunney never took on a black challenger is a little unfair, given Harry Wills had the opportunity to fight him for a very lucrative ($250K) payday but ducked him in favor of Sharkey. Tunney was willing to fight Wills, but Wills wanted no part of him.

Langford was the best of the black fighters of his era along with Gans. His probably gets a little too much credit for his win over Gans seeing how Gans had just fought the night prior in Philadelphia and rode a train all the way to Boston while smoking and drinking heavily.

Langford was robbed of an opportunity to rematch Johnson when Johnson found a way to back out of contract to fight him in the U.K.

[JAB5239]

To say Tunney never took on a black challenger is a little unfair, given Harry Wills had the opportunity to fight him for a very lucrative ($250K) payday but ducked him in favor of Sharkey. Tunney was willing to fight Wills, but Wills wanted no part of him.

Langford was the best of the black fighters of his era along with Gans. His probably gets a little too much credit for his win over Gans seeing how Gans had just fought the night prior in Philadelphia and rode a train all the way to Boston while smoking and drinking heavily.

Langford was robbed of an opportunity to rematch Johnson when Johnson found a way to back out of contract to fight him in the U.K.

Tunney's offer to Wills was a ruse to raise his own standing in getting a shot at Dempsey. There was absolutely nothing for Wills to gain in this fight and Tunney knew it. Wills had already fought in several eliminators and was still denied the chance to fight for the title.

[GhostofDempsey]

Tunney's offer to Wills was a ruse to raise his own standing in getting a shot at Dempsey. There was absolutely nothing for Wills to gain in this fight and Tunney knew it. Wills had already fought in several eliminators and was still denied the chance to fight for the title.

It was not a ruse. He was offered the fight with Tunney as a title eliminator, but turned it down. He felt he was entitled to a shot without an eliminator.

The ruse was, as the Dempsey-Tunney fight approached. On August 6, 1926, the Evening Independent reported that a Chicago matchmaker, Doc Krone, announced that a $300,000 check was waiting for Dempsey in a Chicago bank. On August 22, the Telegraph Herald reported that Wills’ manager Paddy Mullins tried to bluff Dempsey once more into a contract, and then reportedly “failed to come forward with $150,000” saying, “We’ll post the money immediately if Dempsey will sign to fight Wills before September 23.” It was all too late. The public wanted Dempsey back, and he was in the ring with Gene Tunney three weeks later.

A month later, Jack Sharkey gave Wills a vicious beating. Even though he outweighed Sharkey by over 25 pounds, he was pummeled, bloodied and desperate, he fought dirty and was DQ'd.

[Mooshashi]

You obviously don't know your boxing history if you believe this.

Now you understand why I have this idiot on ignore.

Langford, by far. Easy choice.

[Mooshashi]

As a boxer puncher he managed to beat Dempsey and a one eyed Greb who demolished Tunney when he had TWO eyes.

Fixed for you.