Langford or Tunney?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Lol, he clearly beat Ketchel by all accounts. And how do you cherry pick when you fight almost every notable fighter of his era, or was avoided by the rest?

Prove those claims.

[billeau2]

Tough comparison

I like the way Shoulder Roll handled the question. I have a slightly different take on why I think Tunney might have been just a little bit greater.

Tunney came up at a time in boxing when two distinct styles were colliding. You had the older hands held naturally, waist level, trap setting, parrying, and use of the back foot and grapple, along with the new Dempsey imprompture: Squared up, small steps in, head movement, body pivots, a focus and emphasis on punches, including to the body, and in combination. Louis would go on to become a sort of apex for the puncher under Blackburn, a natural continuation from Jack...where the lead became a jab that functioned as a sledge hammer/range finder.

If you watch Tunney fight, you will see elements of both approaches...something somewhat unusual. We see Corbet mentoring Tunney...and Corbet, despite never fighting bare knuckle, used the boxing vocabulary for this style. And then we see Greb, who also worked with Tunney, and we see the punches at work for Gene.

Tunney was one of a few who could actually use a lead, or a jab, could trap your arm in the grapple, or go to the body with superb body punches. he had so much in his tool box. I personally rank Tunney very high on the list of ATG fighters.

Langford was a remarkable fighting man. Strong as an oxe, trained in the grapple and to hit with both hands... I would not fault anyone for seeing him as better than Gene. But for me, the ability to have the ability to use elements of both approaches, and to succeed so much in so doing, makes Tunney one of the very best of all time.

[travestyny]

How do you figure that when he wouldn't face a black fighter? Langford fought everyone from lightweight to heavyweight. Even Jack Johnson was afraid to fight him again after he filled out and matured.

I used to believe that Jack Johnson also drew the color line until I did my own research. Turns out he accepted fights with McVey, Langford, and Jeannette AFTER becoming champion. He also fought a black fighter his...I think 3rd title defense.

The Jeanette fight was shelved by the NY commission and the Langford and McVey fights were taken away after the promoters wanted nothing to do with JJohnson after being busted (falsely) for violating the Mann Act.

[JAB5239]

Prove those claims.

Do your own research.

[JAB5239]

I used to believe that Jack Johnson also drew the color line until I did my own research. Turns out he accepted fights with McVey, Langford, and Jeannette AFTER becoming champion. He also fought a black fighter his...I think 3rd title defense.

The Jeanette fight was shelved by the NY commission and the Langford and McVey fights were taken away after the promoters wanted nothing to do with JJohnson after being busted (falsely) for violating the Mann Act.

Johnson was offered many fights overseas against these opponents and turned them down.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Do your own research.

Hahahaha!

Way to punk out.

There's another character here who wants other people to do her work for her.

I don't have to prove anything, certainly not YOUR assertions.

I get it, I've cut your legs out from under you. But I am not going to argue myself.

LMAO.

I'M starting to think you like Sam, soooooo much because you're kindred spirits: you both spent decades blicking punches with your face.

God almighty, I admire how much you guys revere my knowledge and ability to dominate an argument, but I thought only Maxine Jr. stooped to such levels as asking me to save you from yourself.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Johnson was offered many fights overseas against these opponents and turned them down.

Yeah, most guys don't take up Boxing with the intention of having another dude hug them for 25 rounds.

I have always enjoyed watching him fumble against a crude 23 year old Middleweight, though.

[JAB5239]

Hahahaha!

Way to punk out.

There's another character here who wants other people to do her work for her.

I don't have to prove anything, certainly not YOUR assertions.

I get it, I've cut your legs out from under you. But I am not going to argue myself.

LMAO.

I'M starting to think you like Sam, soooooo much because you're kindred spirits: you both spent decades blicking punches with your face.

God almighty, I admire how much you guys revere my knowledge and ability to dominate an argument, but I thought only Maxine Jr. stooped to such levels as asking me to save you from yourself.

You're obviously trolling or to ****** to do it yourself, so I will oblige you. Let me know how many more you need! 😄

[JAB5239]

Yeah, most guys don't take up Boxing with the intention of having another dude hug them for 25 rounds.

I have always enjoyed watching him fumble against a crude 23 year old Middleweight, though.

You mean the one he carried, like Langford did?

[Rusty Tromboni]

You mean the one he carried, like Langford did?

Again, denial is not a defense.

Playing ****** isn't an argument.

The fight is on-line.

20 years ago you could get away for peddling that ****** rumor.

Today, you're exposing yourself as either: lazy, ******, scared... or any combination of the three.

I get it. You feel trapped and isolated. Instead of making it worse for yourself, you could just say, "Sorry, I was wrong", and it would be all over. But if you keep pressing me, I will expose you. I'm not even trying to be mean about it. I just don't like seeing fans peddle lies.

If that feels too much like hari kari, you can simply tell me something Langford did better than Tunney. Something good, of course. Not something like "got punched in the face", "missed when swinging wildly", "went off balance", "got ****d in the ring", "picked on smaller men".