The Top 20 All-Time Greatest P4P List

[JAB5239]

- - U d00d00 dum better than anyone.

Ring ratings debut 1924 and Jack had already disposed of top fighters Tommy Gibbons and Luis Firpo. Wills a top name had disposed no top fighters.

1926 top fighter Tunney beats Jack with top fighter Sharkey beating Wills . 1927 Jack beats top fighter Sharkey and then beat by Tunney. Meanwhile, Wills is done, no longer relevant and retires after Dempsey as Sharkey goes on to win a title.

Weinhart and Firpo. You're welcome. Again. Moron.

[Willie Pep 229]

My problem with the idea of Wills having to force this fight is who did Tunney fight to force it? By my quick research Gene didn't fight a single too 10 heavyweight contender. I may be wrong, maybe I missed something. So how did he get elevated so highly to begin with, and why should Wills have to fight yet another fighter when he has been the top ranked contender and won a poll of fighters the public wanted to see Dempsey fight? Seems to me Jack had a history of fighting lightheavyweights and mistakenly chose the wrong one instead of fighting the man he should have been fighting to begin with. Just my take anyway.

Edit: Appearently the Gibbons fight was at heavyweight. This made me look a little deeper. Gibbons had lost to Dempsey in 1923 so I thought he may have earned back a top 10 heavyweight spot since that point. The only two names of note were Carpentier, which was contested at heavyweight (but George's has no wins over any top heavies that I see) and Kid Norfolk, a fight that was contested at lightheavy with Norfolk having already been stopped in 2 by Wills in 1922.

Tunney got elevated becuse he was white; Wills didn't because he was black. Everything else you say in that argument is true and just . . . but irrelevant to that day.

Don't you dare get angry at me for repeating myself. We are both repeating ourseleves here.

Wills had no choice but to clear the table he was black and unwanted by half the population; Tunney was white.

Gibbons was chosen by the town of Shelby MT. and approved by Kearns.

The choice of Gibbons had nothing to do with rankings; nothing to do with who he beat or who he fought; it also had nothing to do with the fact that Gibbons came in second behind Wills on the '22 poll. The town picked him because he was a local boy out of Minnesota.

You can't used today's standards to evaluate this situation, they don't apply.

Jab I don't want us to get annoyed with each other, please offer your final assement and I will read it but not reply.

There are too many could things for us to debate.

[mrbig1]

Jack Sharkey was the James Toney of his day. when he was on, he was damn near unbeatable. He was beating the hell out of Dempsey. Sharkey told the ref that Dempsey hit him low. then Dempsey hit him on the break. Watch the video again. Sharkey was holding his groin. He was looking for a foul and DQ. that's Jack Sharkey. The same guy who beat Wills. Like Toney and Bowe what a waste.

[JAB5239]

Tunney got elevated becuse he was white; Wills didn't because he was black. Everything else you say in that argument is true and just . . . but irrelevant to that day.

Don't you dare get angry at me for repeating myself. We are both repeating ourseleves here.

Wills had no choice but to clear the table he was black and unwanted by half the population; Tunney was white.

Gibbons was chosen by the town of Shelby MT. and approved by Kearns.

The choice of Gibbons had nothing to do with rankings; nothing to do with who he beat or who he fought; it also had nothing to do with the fact that Gibbons came in second behind Wills on the '22 poll. The town picked him because he was a local boy out of Minnesota.

You can't used today's standards to evaluate this situation, they don't apply.

Jab I don't want us to get annoyed with each other, please offer your final assement and I will read it but not reply.

There are too many could things for us to debate.

The whole black white thing....if that were true than why was Wills winning polls? I can guarantee more white people were buying newspapers and voting than black people. Especially considering less than ten percent of the US population was black back then. And why were other black fighters getting title shots?

excuse me? When did I say anything angry?

I agree there are to many variables to debate and we could go on forever. It's moare a matter what you believe. We're on opposite sides of the fence on this. No big deal. For me at least, it doesn't detract from the thing we do agree on. You've always been respectful and I hope I have with you as well.as far as you and I go.....let's put the great Dempsey/Wills debate to bed.

[Willie Pep 229]

Jack Sharkey was the James Toney of his day. when he was on, he was damn near unbeatable. He was beating the hell out of Dempsey. Sharkey told the ref that Dempsey hit him low. then Dempsey hit him on the break. Watch the video again. Sharkey was holding his groin. He was looking for a foul and DQ. that's Jack Sharkey. The same guy who beat Wills. Like Toney and Bowe what a waste.

Na! We have been through this one a dozen times as well.

The various arguments in reverse . . .

1. Dempsey was turning the tide and Sharkey was a complainer; the blows were not low; Sharkey had complained his way to a Wills DQ and was at it again. His action on the canvas was another show.

2. The left hook that put Sharkry down was as bad as the hook that put the behemoth Willard down; Sharkey was out of it and his arm is pinned under his body; he's not holding his groin, he is at first prostrate; then with his legs gone he is quivering trying to get up but has lost his legs.

Don't you find it a bit odd that Sharkey could take the susposed low blows without going down, turn and complain to the ref, and then after catching a vicious left hook (he doesn't see coming) hit the canvas and suddenly find the pain in his groin so overwhelming that he can't get up?

What happened, did the low blow somehow increase in pain after the left hook to the head?

Then again maybe your interpretation is
correct, it certainly has many followers. But the only decision that could have been made that night is based on the very old adage, 'protect yourself at all times.'

[TheBoxingInformator]

Finaly someone with boxing knowledge thank god give me your top 10 heavyweights

[The Old LefHook]

Emile Griffith ahead of Pacquiao. Now that is funny as hell.

[The Old LefHook]

Emile Griffith in the top 20. That is funny as hell too.

[Willie Pep 229]

Emile Griffith in the top 20. That is funny as hell too.

For me Griffith at #5 throws that entire Ring list into another dimension; I don't know what to make of it.

[mrbig1]

Many of you guys may be too young to remember Emile Griffith. He was a great fighter and champion. Even I wouldn't have him in the top 10 P4P all time.