The Top 20 All-Time Greatest P4P List

[JAB5239]

Cant see footage can't judge

So we can't take the words of boxing experts and opponents who did see them fight? That Ludacris. Ray Arcel trained Duran, who we all know to be an all time great. He also worked with Benny Leonard and was hard pressed to pick who was the greater fighter between the two. We should just disregard that information? We have film of Tunney and other fighters Harry Greb fought. Many of the guys he beat, he did so easier than Dempsey did. We should just disregard that and not rate him because their is no film? Nonsense. Should we disregard the great military generals in history because there of no film of their battles as well?

[Willie Pep 229]

Cant see footage can't judge

So Caesar was not a great general because we don't have footage to view? How about written records, they don't count?

This isn't the 'my opinion is better than yours' section, it is the 'history' section.

Maybe you took a wrong turn somewhere along the way.

[QueensburyRules]

So Caesar was not a great general because we don't have footage to view? How about written records, they don't count?

- - Caesar a BUM. Who but a BUM has salad dressing named after him?

MacArthur would've mullered him in Croutons.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Caesar a BUM. Who but a BUM has salad dressing named after him?

MacArthur would've mullered him in Croutons.

Ok but . . .

the salad guy was some Mexican chef.

MacArthur IS the most over rated general in American history. Dugout Doug had no balls and never failed to blame a subordinate when needed.

It's why Ike kicked his butt in the 1952 ********** primaries; the GIs' knew the truth.

I'd take Bradley or Abrams or Schwarzkopf over MacArthur.

[QueensburyRules]

Ok but . . .

the salad guy was some Mexican chef.

MacArthur IS the most over rated general in American history. Dugout Doug had no balls and never failed to blame a subordinate when needed.

It's why Ike kicked his butt in the 1952 ********** primaries; the GIs' knew the truth.

I'd take Bradley or Abrams or Schwarzkopf over MacArthur.

- - TR Fehrenbach TRUMPS every fallacy you got to wipe you out of the game.

He was an Intelligence officer in Korea and well acquainted with Mac and wrote a definitive bio on him to compliment that of William Manchester. Every book he published was definitive starting with the history of Texas and that of Mexico. There has never been a US officer more decorated for battle results and bravery in War and none ever holding as much global power as Mac.

When he was "retired" by Truman, his private plane, Bataan that had flown unescorted into over a million dug in Japs after personally arranging the peace treaty with Japanese gens and Emperor and later personally flown reconnaissance in the start up of the Korean War, cannons and church bells sounded his every passage from Japan across every Island and town all the way to NY for testimony before Congress where he got a standing ovation, jus da.FACTs, ma'am.

Best stick to boxing, son. No need to go the Dum Jabby route.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - TR Fehrenbach TRUMPS every fallacy you got to wipe you out of the game.

He was an Intelligence officer in Korea and well acquainted with Mac and wrote a definitive bio on him to compliment that of William Manchester. Every book he published was definitive starting with the history of Texas and that of Mexico. There has never been a US officer more decorated for battle results and bravery in War and none ever holding as much global power as Mac.

When he was "retired" by Truman, his private plane, Bataan that had flown unescorted into over a million dug in Japs after personally arranging the peace treaty with Japanese gens and Emperor and later personally flown reconnaissance in the start up of the Korean War, cannons and church bells sounded his every passage from Japan across every Island and town all the way to NY for testimony before Congress where he got a standing ovation, jus da.FACTs, ma'am.

Best stick to boxing, son. No need to go the Dum Jabby route.

So one of his sycophant subordinates (he kept dozens around him, wrote a book praising him. No suprise. He got rid of Ike because Ike tended to think independently.

His great accomplishment in Korea was Inchon, supported by all the WWII experience in amphibious invasions we gained.

The North Koreans were spread thin across the peninsula assaulting Pusan so he found little resistance.

He then totally misread Mao and got blindsided giving up all the ground he had gained (and all the blood he lost first gaining it).

Then he got dumped, rightly so.

He lobbied for his MOH and was awarded it for political reasons.

You using an absurd appeal to authority by pointing out a book written by one of his aides.

I'll stick to both. See if you can read past the biographies, there's some good history out there.

P.S. Yes! The defeated Japs loved him, he would have made a great king, he thought himself one, (just like your boy in all caps above,) but as a general, second shelf.

P.S.S. And I didn't even bring up the Philippines.

[Ropss]

So we can't take the words of boxing experts and opponents who did see them fight? That Ludacris. Ray Arcel trained Duran, who we all know to be an all time great. He also worked with Benny Leonard and was hard pressed to pick who was the greater fighter between the two. We should just disregard that information? We have film of Tunney and other fighters Harry Greb fought. Many of the guys he beat, he did so easier than Dempsey did. We should just disregard that and not rate him because their is no film? Nonsense. Should we disregard the great military generals in history because there of no film of their battles as well?

I would be not suprised if prime jake Paul beat prime harry greb wtf is that shadowboxing footage,

[QueensburyRules]

So one of his sycophant subordinates (he kept dozens around him, wrote a book praising him. No suprise. He got rid of Ike because Ike tended to think independently.

His great accomplishment in Korea was Inchon, supported by all the WWII experience in amphibious invasions we gained.

The North Koreans were spread thin across the peninsula assaulting Pusan so he found little resistance.

He then totally misread Mao and got blindsided giving up all the ground he had gained (and all the blood he lost first gaining it).

Then he got dumped, rightly so.

He lobbied for his MOH and was awarded it for political reasons.

You using an absurd appeal to authority by pointing out a book written by one of his aides.

I'll stick to both. See if you can read past the biographies, there's some good history out there.

P.S. Yes! The defeated Japs loved him, he would have made a great king, he thought himself one, (just like your boy in all caps above,) but as a general, second shelf.

P.S.S. And I didn't even bring up the Philippines.

- - Sorry to put you down, but Fehrenbach was not his aide. He would've been around Mac in intelligence briefings as what, one of 200 such officers Mac encountered?

Rest of what you stated is an uncooked goulash of nonedible items. TR is one of the most respected, seminal Historians ever and is cited ad infinitum in any new work that he covered.

Mac's bravery was such that he could be considered dangerously foolish save he had an inner self belief in destiny and all is well cited on the record.

Have no idea what you have read, but of course leaving Bataan gives him a bad stain. He fought the orders until he realized no relief was forthcoming and near his whole family could've died in the stormy seas in a PT boat they used to flee the take over. He shored Australian defenses that he used that as the base to sweep over the Japanese with innovative military tactics. He wrote the Japanese Constitution in a night after a week's study of other constitutions that freed up all the Japanese peoples from previous bondages.

Mac was quite popular with the public at boxing matches and baseball games in private life, and his crisis counsel was sought throughout that period until literally his last breath.

Like I say, dunno what you read, nor am I inclined to argue over it off topic on a boxing board, hence my highlighted above /\. Mac's father was also a decorated highly popular general and Medal of Honor awarded for bravery in battle, but Mac Junior never sought the military and has led a secluded, literary life that breaks that great military chain.

[Ivich]

This is my top 20 list, which will remain fluid, that way adjustments can be made over time.

1- Ray Robinson

2- Willie Pep

3- Archie Moore

4- Ezzard Charles

5- Harry Greb

6- Roberto Duran

7- Manny Pacquiao

8- Barney Ross

9- Benny Leonard

10- Sam Langford

11- Mickey Walker

12- Henry Armstrong

13- Tiger Flowers

14- Jake LaMotta

15- Jack Dempsey

16- Ray Leonard

17- Emile Griffith

18- Tony Canzoneri

19- Roy Jones Jr

20- Ike Williams

Plenty of honorable mentions who can easily be rotated on or off the list. In no particular order:

Jose Napoles
Pernell Whitaker
Julio Cesar Chavez Sr
Michael Spinks
Joe Louis
Jimmy McLarnin
Joe Gans
Charley Burley
Sandy Saddler
Holman Williams
Gene Tunney

Post up your lists!

Greb
Robinson
Armstrong
Charles
Duran
Pep
B Leonard
Langford
Fitzsimmons
Pacquiao
Moore
Chavez
R Leonard
Walker
Jofre
Wilde
Gans
Joe Walcott
Ross
Ali

[mrbig1]

No Carlos Monzon? He retired undefeated in his last 81 fights on 13 years.