Joe Louis Runs the Gauntlet

[Rusty Tromboni]

I don't know what you are trying to say with that.

Full disclosure: I favor Louis over Dempsey. I just don't feel we ever really, truly got a glimpse of what Dempsey could do. He was a man on fire in 1919, but Willard wasn't much more than a personified punching bag. After that, with a dearth of meaningful challengers and a sudden boon of popularity, Dempsey seems to have lost focus. He didn't go off the rails like Conor McGregor, but it definitely seems he settled to fight at his opponents' level. Sure, he was crude; but I think that until the Tunney rematch we saw a man who loved being THE champion more than being a fighter.

Louis, conversely, had his "Bum of the Month Club", but gave us decades of film to review. He is as perfect an offensive fighter as we've ever seen. Nothing crude there. And the consummate professional. Not a perfect fighter. Not the fighter w/ the greatest record in Boxing or even Hw history. But definitely a great fighter with supporting evidence.

So I have to pick Louis' size and precision over Dempsey's fury and variety. I think Louis' jab and uppercuts would find Dempsey before anything of Dempsey's found Louis. (Bowe isn't quite on Louis' level, but I feel the same way about that match-up: size and punch selection more that compensate for pourous defense - even against the monster that was Jack Dempsey). It's the safer pick.

That being said, Jack's crudeness is exaggerated. And Louis struggled (albeit, prevailed) against lesser men than Dempsey. So trying to assert Louis beats Dempsey (or vice versa) requires some substantiation.

Also, Tunney will last to the final bell by keeping distance. And I said Fury will finish on his feet.

I thought you said he beats Fury in 10. My bad.

Either way, Fury wipes his ass w/ Louis. The only fighters I'd give a chance of ever beating Fury at his best are Vitali and Lewis. But I wouldn;t make them favorites. They're just live underdogs. It's like somebody forgot to tell Fury he's an ogre - he boxes great despite his size.

[Dempsey19]

Full disclosure: I favor Louis over Dempsey. I just don't feel we ever really, truly got a glimpse of what Dempsey could do. He was a man on fire in 1919, but Willard wasn't much more than a personified punching bag. After that, with a dearth of meaningful challengers and a sudden boon of popularity, Dempsey seems to have lost focus. He didn't go off the rails like Conor McGregor, but it definitely seems he settled to fight at his opponents' level. Sure, he was crude; but I think that until the Tunney rematch we saw a man who loved being THE champion more than being a fighter.

Louis, conversely, had his "Bum of the Month Club", but gave us decades of film to review. He is as perfect an offensive fighter as we've ever seen. Nothing crude there. And the consummate professional. Not a perfect fighter. Not the fighter w/ the greatest record in Boxing or even Hw history. But definitely a great fighter with supporting evidence.

So I have to pick Louis' size and precision over Dempsey's fury and variety. I think Louis' jab and uppercuts would find Dempsey before anything of Dempsey's found Louis. (Bowe isn't quite on Louis' level, but I feel the same way about that match-up: size and punch selection more that compensate for pourous defense - even against the monster that was Jack Dempsey). It's the safer pick.

That being said, Jack's crudeness is exaggerated. And Louis struggled (albeit, prevailed) against lesser men than Dempsey. So trying to assert Louis beats Dempsey (or vice versa) requires some substantiation.



I thought you said he beats Fury in 10. My bad.

Either way, Fury wipes his ass w/ Louis. The only fighters I'd give a chance of ever beating Fury at his best are Vitali and Lewis. But I wouldn;t make them favorites. They're just live underdogs. It's like somebody forgot to tell Fury he's an ogre - he boxes great despite his size.

Fury will be stopped in 10 but he'll be stopped on his feet, and he'll still be game even though the ringside doctor and his corner won't let the fight continue.

Dempsey was the same height and had an inch of reach on Louis, so Louis doesn't really have a size advantage. He has like a 9 pound weight advantage but that's it.

I think Fury is too big to be outboxed by shorter fighters but guys like Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Tyson and Holyfield can draw him into a brawl and either stop or outwork him for the decision win, a la Hagler v Hearns. It might be a bit harder for Dempsey and Louis though because of their low weight to height ratios.

I would add Holmes to your list of people who could outbox him, I actually think he'd have a better chance of beating Fury than Vitali due to the latter's short reach for a superheavy, he'd be giving up as much reach to Fury as Frazier would be giving up to him and I'm not really sure Vitali would be able to fight a bob-and-weave style to get to the inside which he would need to with that kind of a reach difference.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I would add Holmes to your list of people who could outbox him, I actually think he'd have a better chance of beating Fury than Vitali due to the latter's short reach for a superheavy, he'd be giving up as much reach to Fury as Frazier would be giving up to him and I'm not really sure Vitali would be able to fight a bob-and-weave style to get to the inside which he would need to with that kind of a reach difference.

Have you actually seen Holmes fight? I love how in all these hypothetical discussions everyone becomes Willie Pep. Holmes was a complete fighter. He was far more technically sound than most Heavyweights before or since. He also had the heart of a lion. But he struggled mightily with many opponents. And I'm not talkingabout ATGs. He really wanted to break Marciano's record, so he purposefully avoided the best competition, and he still looked bad. There's no way he figures out Fury. Fury wipes his ass with Holmes. It's not even close.

Oh, and that's not even taking into consideration how Fury would brain-**** Holmes in the pre-fight hype. He'd be living rent-free in that ugly ass deformity that Holmes calls a head.

I think Fury is too big to be outboxed by shorter fighters but guys like Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Tyson and Holyfield can draw him into a brawl and either stop or outwork him for the decision win, a la Hagler v Hearns. It might be a bit harder for Dempsey and Louis though because of their low weight to height ratios.

LOL, no they can't. He's learned his lesson, not to try to press the fight. Remember, he actually won that fight by STOPPING Cuningahm. And Cunningham is bigger than pretty much anyone you named. But I still don't see Fury erring to fight on the front foot. Guyslike Buchanan andHolmes were boxers who were known to settle into shoot-outs. But that's not Fury. He's too disciplined.

If you pick those guys to beat Fury. I would like to know what round you pick Duran to stop each one of the in. Since size doesn't matter, and skill is enough to win a fight, you must pick Duran to eventually decimate each other them.

[them_apples]

What did Tommy Farr have that Dempsey didn't? And Galento?

How does tunney make it to the final round, but Tyson fury gets blown out? Would you pick Duran to blow-out Louis? Looking at the film, I think duran could shytt on Louis' mother, and Louis still wouldn't have the fire to last the distance w/ Duran.... then I remember that Louis is twice Duran's size. Just like Fury is twice Tunney's size, and better at keeping on the defense.

duran did beat guys twice his size, and he did it when he was overweight and undertrained.

For the record, Fury and Vitali are just taller, foreman is an example of someone who is bigger in frame. Fury got nearly koed by cunning ham lol. That guy prob could make 175 on an old boxing boxing regimen.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Step away from them dumb apples son before you step in front of a big truck.

USS is a rock hard lifelong cruiser whose fighting weight was 215 whether at cruiser or heavy. Yeah, chain him up in a concrete bunker and give him holocaust rations and he could be the biggest featherwt in history.

dumb apples told me so, but they was kinda green still, so I didn't eat em!

[them_apples]

- -Step away from them dumb apples son before you step in front of a big truck.

USS is a rock hard lifelong cruiser whose fighting weight was 215 whether at cruiser or heavy. Yeah, chain him up in a concrete bunker and give him holocaust rations and he could be the biggest featherwt in history.

dumb apples told me so, but they was kinda green still, so I didn't eat em!

lmao. woah *slowely steps back*

[Dempsey19]

Have you actually seen Holmes fight? I love how in all these hypothetical discussions everyone becomes Willie Pep. Holmes was a complete fighter. He was far more technically sound than most Heavyweights before or since. He also had the heart of a lion. But he struggled mightily with many opponents. And I'm not talkingabout ATGs. He really wanted to break Marciano's record, so he purposefully avoided the best competition, and he still looked bad. There's no way he figures out Fury. Fury wipes his ass with Holmes. It's not even close.

Oh, and that's not even taking into consideration how Fury would brain-**** Holmes in the pre-fight hype. He'd be living rent-free in that ugly ass deformity that Holmes calls a head.




LOL, no they can't. He's learned his lesson, not to try to press the fight. Remember, he actually won that fight by STOPPING Cuningahm. And Cunningham is bigger than pretty much anyone you named. But I still don't see Fury erring to fight on the front foot. Guyslike Buchanan andHolmes were boxers who were known to settle into shoot-outs. But that's not Fury. He's too disciplined.

If you pick those guys to beat Fury. I would like to know what round you pick Duran to stop each one of the in. Since size doesn't matter, and skill is enough to win a fight, you must pick Duran to eventually decimate each other them.

What I was really saying was that I think Vitali’s reach is too short to beat Fury.

Even skilled superheavies can be beaten by brawling with them like Holyfield did in the second Lennox fight, which I personally think he won. You just need great power, a good chin, stamina and a high weight to height ratio.

Size is diminishing returns after a point. Once you get to a solid (not skinny) 180 pounds, you are near the peak of human strength, further strength increases will only be marginal. Andre the Giant is no stronger than Lennox Lewis.

Your boy Fury himself said that Iron Mike would KO him in 1 round (which Mike has a very sweet reply too !)

Height and reach are just as much of a disadvantage at close range as they are an advantage at long range.

Marciano and Tyson were the superheavies of close range brawling. Their bodies were biologically designed to be perfect at that job. If I had to build a close range brawler in a lab the end result would end up looking a lot like Rocky or Mike, short and stocky with that short reach that allows you to generate insane torque, leverage and power at close range. If superheavyweights are long range snipers then they are close range bulldogs. Silverback gorillas are about 5’10” too !

[QueensburyRules]

- -Young Andre could thrown Lewie into the 5 th row and then knocked him down as he arose with the ref flying into the 6th.

Yup, don't know where some of you jokers were hatched, but c'mon!

[Dempsey19]

- -Young Andre could thrown Lewie into the 5 th row and then knocked him down as he arose with the ref flying into the 6th.

Yup, don't know where some of you jokers were hatched, but c'mon!

Lennox has more strength in his pinky finger than Wepner has in his entire body. In a bare knuckle street fight, he’d bludgeon Andre to death. (Also, young Andre didn’t even weigh that much)

Fedor, Cain and DC could all probably pick Andre up and throw him into the 5th row !

Wilder is clearly stronger than Fury despite being 50 pounds lighter and much shorter.

After you reach a certain size strength stops increasing. While it is fiction, look at Game Of Thrones in which the 2 physically strongest warriors are both about 6’6” to 7’ and 300 pounds and are considered a physical match for anybody despite the fact that there are 8 foot tall 500 pounders walking around.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Certain that either Jack Dempsey at age 19 knew so much more than you.

Andre had acromegaly that made him 7' and 350 lbs of an agile nightmare. Gorilla Monsoon near 400 lb didn't have Andre's ultimate strength and bone structure size, but lifted a 230 lb out of training Ali like you would a rag doll and slammed him.

Certain groups of men have massive strength over normals like Lewis, and others a natural affinity for street fights unlike Lewis who was more to the sissy range.

Get over it! Andre had more HGH production in his short life than the combined efforts of swartzenegger and Stallone could purchase.