Henry armstrong wasn't invincible

[QueensburyRules]

I would argue that Holyfield was more sound than Ali, and he actually adapted to fighting the giants of the division very well. Ali trying to rope-a-dope Spinks has to be one of the saddest things i've ever seen. Don't get me wrong, I'm laughing at his dumb ass. But it's really a shame to watch.

- -Field has a 28-10-2 record at hvy with about a 30% KO ratio. How is that and leading with his face when not leading with a butt superior to Ali or any gray heavy?

[QueensburyRules]

Oh, yeah! How could i forget!? Passing out like a diva against Maxim. Getting worked by Tiger Jones. Going life and death w/ Carmen Basilio. Finding himself outclassed by Randy Turpin. Stopping a dehyrated Jake LaMotta - after struggling against the T-Rex jab.

He's flashy and very good on the offense. But he's not P4P best. The dude would get bulled by Walker and embarassed by Loughran. He was as much a Middleweight as Greb was. There's no way the video evidence bolsters his standing.

- -Rusty quite apt that you don't know Ray suffered heat prostration in a stifling blistering summer.

The loss is on him, but he was as near death as could be and took some years off to recover. Most all his few losses occurred during his comeback where he won his most acclaim and affection losses be damned.

Are you always in the habit of whitewashing history and then making up new history?

Any shame is on you, not Ray who gave it his all even when he was no longer relevant in boxing other than a guaranteed gate attraction.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Field has a 28-10-2 record at hvy with about a 30% KO ratio. How is that and leading with his face when not leading with a butt superior to Ali or any gray heavy?

I mean, Harold Johnson was as technically sound as the come. Arguello and Louis had perfect offense. Jofre looked like a Renaissance master piece while Harada looked like a Jackson Pollock.

being technically sound doesn't mean you're destined to be the best. that's what's beautiful about Boxing: it's art and science.

I should have picked someone other than Holyfield. But the point is, Ali had plenty of technical deficienices, but he's recognized as the best Heavyweight ever for good reason.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Rusty quite apt that you don't know Ray suffered heat prostration in a stifling blistering summer.

The loss is on him, but he was as near death as could be and took some years off to recover. Most all his few losses occurred during his comeback where he won his most acclaim and affection losses be damned.

Are you always in the habit of whitewashing history and then making up new history?

Any shame is on you, not Ray who gave it his all even when he was no longer relevant in boxing other than a guaranteed gate attraction.

You're adorable.


So who was the lawyer that wrote Maxim's contract assuring the weather on his side of the ring was 20 degrees cooler?

And why did Ray's lawyer force him to Box in those conditions?


Damn lawyers. Source of all our problems, huh?

[Quaccey]

Oh, yeah! How could i forget!? Passing out like a diva against Maxim. Getting worked by Tiger Jones. Going life and death w/ Carmen Basilio. Finding himself outclassed by Randy Turpin. Stopping a dehyrated Jake LaMotta - after struggling against the T-Rex jab.

He's flashy and very good on the offense. But he's not P4P best. The dude would get bulled by Walker and embarassed by Loughran. He was as much a Middleweight as Greb was. There's no way the video evidence bolsters his standing.



Yeah, now you're just in denial. You can talk yourself in circles. But we have footage of the men Greb beat. It's not rocket science: If A beats B, A is better than B.
And it's not like people really care about footage. Look at P4P lists, and FOTY/FOTD lists, etc. They're more about entertainment than anything. Look at how many top 10 lists feature Ali or Joe Gans, for God's sake. They are (comparatively) horrific on tape. I'm not sure Ali was ever top 5 in the 60's or 70's - he wasn't always the best Heavyweight, never mind P4P King. But guys who were clearly superior on film are forgotten on lists he tops today.

I'm not saying we should jump off the bridge w/ the other idiots. I am saying that the argument about footage is often only applied as a cop out. I am sure Greb did things that were primitive, and he had flaws that certain fighters could exploit. But we also KNOW he beat some of the best fighters ever (film certified). Just like we know Armstrong lost to Zivic, and had hyper-competitive fights w/ Ambers.
It's pretty easy LOOKING AT THE FILM to see Armstrong is a top 5 Lightweight; but not a top 10 Featherweight or Welterweight.

Again, to be perfectly clear: Armstrong is absolutely one of the very best to ever lace them up. But the footage shows his limitations; awe-inspiring, though it is. And people get carried away about his 3 division championship and numerous title defenses w/o knowing the facts.

Man look who came on the forum and started spazzing. You might not consider him the p4p best, but the general acclimation is that he is and watching him fight you can see why. The way Harry is described you have to see to believe it, the man doesn't even have real power it's all pressure and overwhelming his opponents, but instead of being real about the matter that film would give people a better idea of him now he's this unstoppable machine despite his L's he took. Ok Rusty I'm glad you have a hard on for harry, but damn man and then you go for Ali, name one heavyweight to beat ali at his very best. His athletic ability was unmatched on his best day and on his worst he was still too much to handle speed and boxing skills, but I guess you see things mythical things that nobody else does. You can hate all you want rusty, but at the end of the day footage would help your case more than mines. I could never feed into some hype from a dude born over 100 years ago beating anyone in today's world with his style that we've never seen him perform, but If I had to put money on it his style is also used by shawn porter and Joe Calzaghe and used in the past by Aaron Pryor. At his best Robinson performed greater than all welterweights right now, but I'll leave you to keep Harry in your mouth mane, but believe me it's not good for you. Curse me all you want hype man.

[ShoulderRoll]

I thought he stopped ol boy lol in much more dominant fashion at that, but you can't say anything on these forums without being blocked because you see things that everyone sees, but they have a one tracked mind ok rant done.

It's hard to have serious conversations on here because too many people have an agenda that they want to push. Or are just outright trolling...how can anyone say with a straight face that Lomachenko is on the same level as Greb, then use the Pedraza fight as an example of why?

The History section used to be a safe haven from this kind of thing. But sadly people are being allowed to get away with too much infantile behavior even in this subforum now.

[QueensburyRules]

I should have picked someone other than Holyfield. But the point is, Ali had plenty of technical deficienices, but he's recognized as the best Heavyweight ever for good reason.

- -IBRO recognized Joe Louis as #1, ever hear of him?

Set the all time record for hvy title wins that nobody ever had a sniff of until Wlad came along.

[QueensburyRules]

You're adorable.

- -Girls think so, but I didn't think I was in a girl forum.

Just to let you know.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -IBRO recognized Joe Louis as #1, ever hear of him?

Set the all time record for hvy title wins that nobody ever had a sniff of until Wlad came along.

yeah, the guy who hadfits w/ Two Ton Toney, and was takentothe limit by Conn. Whose best win was Max Baer? Schmeling?

Louis is probably my #2 Hw. But you're being pedantic.

[Rusty Tromboni]

It's hard to have serious conversations on here because too many people have an agenda that they want to push. Or are just outright trolling...how can anyone say with a straight face that Lomachenko is on the same level as Greb, then use the Pedraza fight as an example of why?

The History section used to be a safe haven from this kind of thing. But sadly people are being allowed to get away with too much infantile behavior even in this subforum now.

Greb was more primitive than Lomachenko. That's the simple reason why. The sport has evolved. COuld a mideval knight walk into the Olympics and win a Gold in Fencing?

Why not?


Lomachenko's performances showcase incredible skills. Again, name me a Featherweight who's looked that good against men that much bigger. Arguello and Armstrong grew into full-blown Lightweights and I'm not sure we'd see such flawless victories as Lomachenko has had at Lw.

Even Duran at Ww. The win over Leonard was legit. But the rematch was probably always going to be the more accurate portrayal of their relationship. Duran fell apart and quit. His other great wins at 147 and 154 were against Cuevas, Moore and Palomino. Good opponents, but not ATGs by any stretch of the imagination. And none them fought the smart fight against Duran.

When Robinson was a full-blown Middleweight he gave up fighting bigger men - except in the ill-fated fight w/ Maxim. How come? Why did the greatest offensive fighter settle for fighting smaller men?

The ability to defy weight limits, especially at lower weights, is a tremendous achievement.

I understand you've never wrestled or boxed, so this is all lost on you. But for athletes, we understand this stuff.

Now wash the Doritos dust off your fingers and run your ass around the block a couple times. You'll feel better about yourself, and think more clearly.