Henry armstrong wasn't invincible

[Rusty Tromboni]

Also keyboard warrior you spoke about harry as if there was available footage and you obviously know damn it's not even 10 seconds of video of a fight. So before you tough remember you on a boxing forum, so instead of hurling insults like a girl would do be a man and drop some facts or do what most smart people do shut the **** before you speak out of turn again boy.

sorry to dissapoint you, Extra Foam. That i never did. The footage of tunney, walker, loughran etc. may not even be their best. but it's enough to know theyre better than anyone armstrong fought.

i'll admit it was a more primitive era. harry probably did a little more fouling and lacked the KO punch. armstrong held belts. but it's nothard to discern from the superior resume that greb was better.

ali's resume is a lot better than holyfields. even if holyfield was more technically sound and managed a longer tenure, we dont need the footage to know ali was the much better fighter.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Neither Ali nor Field were ever technically sound.

More resoundingly unsound. Field relied on chin, strength, and vitamins, and Ali on chin and reflexes. They took serious beatings, even in their prime on occasion. And then it got worse.

[Quaccey]

sorry to dissapoint you, Extra Foam. That i never did. The footage of tunney, walker, loughran etc. may not even be their best. but it's enough to know theyre better than anyone armstrong fought.

i'll admit it was a more primitive era. harry probably did a little more fouling and lacked the KO punch. armstrong held belts. but it's nothard to discern from the superior resume that greb was better.

ali's resume is a lot better than holyfields. even if holyfield was more technically sound and managed a longer tenure, we dont need the footage to know ali was the much better fighter.

The only issue I have with harry is the simple fact we have no footage u know? So it's purely hearsay, which it makes it crazy hard for me to see him dealing with Robinson, who we both know is naturally bigger and has pure boxing ability along with tremendous quick hands with knockout power especially for his era. Now Armstrong is on video and we see his style hell we've seen similar styles since his shawn porter currently is close to him imo, but we've yet to see anyone who matches Greb's style or anyone commenting on it in modern times. Ain't gonna front his resume is incredibly deep, but his power is lackluster to say the least.

[Rusty Tromboni]

The only issue I have with harry is the simple fact we have no footage u know? So it's purely hearsay, which it makes it crazy hard for me to see him dealing with Robinson, who we both know is naturally bigger and has pure boxing ability along with tremendous quick hands with knockout power especially for his era. Now Armstrong is on video and we see his style hell we've seen similar styles since his shawn porter currently is close to him imo, but we've yet to see anyone who matches Greb's style or anyone commenting on it in modern times. Ain't gonna front his resume is incredibly deep, but his power is lackluster to say the least.

Robinson fought in an era when cutting weight was more accepted. I'm not saying he cut massive weight. And I think greb probably had bad habits (which he overcame w/ raw talent) that saw him hit the scales "bloated". So while I'll never say Ray was a true Middleweight and Greb was really a Welterweight, I think it's fair to say both men at their peak were the same size. Harry was more robust, and Ray was rangier. But they were about the same size.

If Harry fought men his own size, I'm sure his KO percentage would have been much higher. Ray tried fighting bigger men... well one, and he passed out. Then he retired. We do have footage of Joey Maxim. He was like the cheerleader who slept w/ all the football players - yeah she was deep in the mix, but she was never "officially" on the team. Same w/ Maxim: he fought great Light Heavyweights, but he was not one. He definitely wasn't a Tommy Loughran.

So yeah, we don't have footage of prime Greb or prime Robinson but I don't see how that matters.

I often wonder, now that we have Lomachenko, if that's not actually how Greb fought. Obviously not as refined, and surely in many ways different. But Lomachenko does a lot of the things described of greb, that we really haven't seen anyone else do. Look at what Lomachenko didto Pedraza: no KO, but what other featherweight ever could have swarmed Pedraza like that?

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Neither Ali nor Field were ever technically sound.

More resoundingly unsound. Field relied on chin, strength, and vitamins, and Ali on chin and reflexes. They took serious beatings, even in their prime on occasion. And then it got worse.

I would argue that Holyfield was more sound than Ali, and he actually adapted to fighting the giants of the division very well. Ali trying to rope-a-dope Spinks has to be one of the saddest things i've ever seen. Don't get me wrong, I'm laughing at his dumb ass. But it's really a shame to watch.

[Quaccey]

Robinson fought in an era when cutting weight was more accepted. I'm not saying he cut massive weight. And I think greb probably had bad habits (which he overcame w/ raw talent) that saw him hit the scales "bloated". So while I'll never say Ray was a true Middleweight and Greb was really a Welterweight, I think it's fair to say both men at their peak were the same size. Harry was more robust, and Ray was rangier. But they were about the same size.

If Harry fought men his own size, I'm sure his KO percentage would have been much higher. Ray tried fighting bigger men... well one, and he passed out. Then he retired. We do have footage of Joey Maxim. He was like the cheerleader who slept w/ all the football players - yeah she was deep in the mix, but she was never "officially" on the team. Same w/ Maxim: he fought great Light Heavyweights, but he was not one. He definitely wasn't a Tommy Loughran.

So yeah, we don't have footage of prime Greb or prime Robinson but I don't see how that matters.

I often wonder, now that we have Lomachenko, if that's not actually how Greb fought. Obviously not as refined, and surely in many ways different. But Lomachenko does a lot of the things described of greb, that we really haven't seen anyone else do. Look at what Lomachenko didto Pedraza: no KO, but what other featherweight ever could have swarmed Pedraza like that?

The footage doesn't matter on Robinson as we've seen plenty of him in action. Harry is complete mystery and remember he fought blind in one eye, and he wasn't the tallest guy either he completely overwhelmed his opponents or that's the word on the street about his style. I guess you could say similar to a prime Manny at best I would imagine. Loma I'm not too sure he's very technical whereas harry had a machine like style I see your comparison, but didn't Davis destroy pedraza? If I remember the fight correctly. Typically a good lil man gets conquered by a good big man, and couple that with pure ability on top of everything and that makes things incredibly interesting.

[ShoulderRoll]

Loma I'm not too sure he's very technical whereas harry had a machine like style I see your comparison, but didn't Davis destroy pedraza?

Davis did destroy Pedraza. Walked right through him.

No objective boxing fan thinks that Lomachenko's win over Pedraza was some great feat. I had to chuckle at the comment that "no other featherweight could swarm Pedraza like that."

[Quaccey]

Davis did destroy Pedraza. Walked right through him.

No objective boxing fan thinks that Lomachenko's win over Pedraza was some great feat. I had to chuckle at the comment that "no other featherweight could swarm Pedraza like that."

I thought he stopped ol boy lol in much more dominant fashion at that, but you can't say anything on these forums without being blocked because you see things that everyone sees, but they have a one tracked mind ok rant done.

[Rusty Tromboni]

The footage doesn't matter on Robinson as we've seen plenty of him in action.

Oh, yeah! How could i forget!? Passing out like a diva against Maxim. Getting worked by Tiger Jones. Going life and death w/ Carmen Basilio. Finding himself outclassed by Randy Turpin. Stopping a dehyrated Jake LaMotta - after struggling against the T-Rex jab.

He's flashy and very good on the offense. But he's not P4P best. The dude would get bulled by Walker and embarassed by Loughran. He was as much a Middleweight as Greb was. There's no way the video evidence bolsters his standing.

Harry is complete mystery and remember he fought blind in one eye, and he wasn't the tallest guy either he completely overwhelmed his opponents or that's the word on the street about his style. I guess you could say similar to a prime Manny at best I would imagine. Loma I'm not too sure he's very technical whereas harry had a machine like style I see your comparison, but didn't Davis destroy pedraza? If I remember the fight correctly. Typically a good lil man gets conquered by a good big man, and couple that with pure ability on top of everything and that makes things incredibly interesting.

Yeah, now you're just in denial. You can talk yourself in circles. But we have footage of the men Greb beat. It's not rocket science: If A beats B, A is better than B.
And it's not like people really care about footage. Look at P4P lists, and FOTY/FOTD lists, etc. They're more about entertainment than anything. Look at how many top 10 lists feature Ali or Joe Gans, for God's sake. They are (comparatively) horrific on tape. I'm not sure Ali was ever top 5 in the 60's or 70's - he wasn't always the best Heavyweight, never mind P4P King. But guys who were clearly superior on film are forgotten on lists he tops today.

I'm not saying we should jump off the bridge w/ the other idiots. I am saying that the argument about footage is often only applied as a cop out. I am sure Greb did things that were primitive, and he had flaws that certain fighters could exploit. But we also KNOW he beat some of the best fighters ever (film certified). Just like we know Armstrong lost to Zivic, and had hyper-competitive fights w/ Ambers.
It's pretty easy LOOKING AT THE FILM to see Armstrong is a top 5 Lightweight; but not a top 10 Featherweight or Welterweight.

Again, to be perfectly clear: Armstrong is absolutely one of the very best to ever lace them up. But the footage shows his limitations; awe-inspiring, though it is. And people get carried away about his 3 division championship and numerous title defenses w/o knowing the facts.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Davis did destroy Pedraza. Walked right through him.

No objective boxing fan thinks that Lomachenko's win over Pedraza was some great feat. I had to chuckle at the comment that "no other featherweight could swarm Pedraza like that."

You clearly have no shame or no sense? Which is it?

I know this is a little harder than your coloring books so let me ask you a few questions, to help you along:

What fights did Davis fight a Featherweight?

What surgery was he returning from when he fought Pedraza?

Did Pedraza look anywhere as good that night against Davis as he did the night he fought Lomachenko?


See. It doesn't hurt to think. You'll have more self-respect, to say the least.