Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[Willie Pep 229]

What ad hominem? Do you know what an ad hominem is???????

Who said it was cloth and rubber tape. I'm going by people who WERE HIT and who WERE DOING THE HITTING. You are making up what you want and again, we both know why.


Everyone involved directly agrees....but you are telling them they are making it up. Make it make sense.

Yes I know what it is. You in the first sentence tried change the subject from tape to me. So get over the BS.

I am going by what type of tape existed at the time. No plastic just cloth and rubber. Show me evidence of any other type of tape bring available before the 1930s.

You depend way too much on fighters telling stories. Half these guys didn't even understand what their trainers were packing their gloves with.

As I said before way too many accusations and way too many claims, too many excuses about loaded gloves. Just stories, not history.

[travestyny]

Yes I know what it is. You in the first sentence tried change the subject from tape to me. So get over the BS.

I am going by what type of tape existed at the time. No plastic just cloth and rubber. Show me evidence of any other type of tape bring available before the 1930s.

You depend way too much on fighters telling stories. Half these guys didn't even understand what their trainers were packing their gloves with.

As I said before way too many accusations and way too many claims, too many excuses about loaded gloves. Just stories, not history.

No, I didn't try to change it to you. I've been consistent from the beginning. Smith admit to it and Willard says he could feel the wraps through the glove. That has been my point from jump.

Why would I have to show you evidence of tape when these guys said exactly what it did. But have at it.

The original electrical insulating tape was made of cloth tape impregnated with Chatterton's compound, an adhesive material manufactured using Gutta-percha. This type of tape was often used to insulate soldered splices on knob and tube wiring. It was commonly referred to as "friction tape", and had the unique property of being sticky on both sides.

Chatterton’s compound is an adhesive waterproof insulating compound that was used in early submarine telegraph cables.^[1] It was patented in 1859 by John Chatterton and Willoughby Smith.^[2]

Its constitution is as follows:

• 3 parts gutta-percha
• 1 part rosin
• 1 part Stockholm tar

In pharmaceuticals, rosin forms an ingredient in several plasters and ointments.

Looks like it may have had rosin which could be used in plaster. Not that I think this exercise was necessary. You're talking about "accusations." Does it make sense to you that Smith would accuse himself????????

This is another of your arguments that makes no sense at all.

[travestyny]

Just stories, not history.

Not history according to you, yet, how many boxing history books talk about loaded gloves from tape? Do you want some examples?

Here's one by Mark Kram, author of "Ghosts of Manila."

The trade evolved first toward shoddiness, when, among other things, trainers would tape hands with lethal bicycle tape and would use razor blades to relieve swelling.

[Willie Pep 229]

Not history according to you, yet, how many boxing history books talk about loaded gloves from tape? Do you want some examples?

Here's one by Mark Kram, author of "Ghosts of Manila."

Yes lots of great stories. Everyone's got them.

Too many, that's my point. If you wanted to pretend to be 'in the know' you had to have a loaded glove story to tell. They all got their story to tell. I am certain you can find many of them to show me. I have read a hundred myself. That's my point!

RE ABOVE POST: I said both, "too many accusations and too many CLAIMS."

Smith is not accusing himself, he is bragging!

Back then saying your gloves were loaded made you 'cool' - fighters love to tell stories how they were 'one up' on their opponents, how they out foxed their opponents.

You depend too much on fighters stories; you trust them too much.

P.S. Rosin is interesting. Will think on that.

[travestyny]

Yes lots of great stories. Everyone's got them.

Too many, that's my point. If you wanted to pretend to be 'in the know' you had to have a loaded glove story to tell. They all got their story to tell. I am certain you can find many of them to show me. I have read a hundred myself. That's my point!

RE ABOVE POST: I said both, "too many accusations and too many CLAIMS."

Smith is not accusing himself, he is bragging!

Back then saying your gloves were loaded made you 'cool' - fighters love to tell stories how they were 'one up' on their opponents, how they out foxed their opponents.

You depend too much on fighters stories; you trust them too much.

P.S. Rosin is interesting. Will think on that.

So your argument is that too many people said that certain tapes were used to cause more damage, so that makes it false?


Sounds like a sound argument to me........



Where did you get this "Back then, saying your gloves were loaded made you 'cool' thing from? That is based on what exactly?



You depend on your feelings too much. You and I both know why you suspend belief here and I don't want to get into it for the umpteenth time.

[travestyny]

This is the equivalent of.....

The criminal confesses....


the victim backs up the criminal's confession....


but they both are lying because.......


apparently because we believe criminal confessions and victim statements too much, I suppose.

[ShoulderRoll]

Fitz's ungloved hands were carefully examined by Jeffries in the ring, and nothing amiss was found ,that is a known fact.

Electrical tape feels like a solid mass,a brick, when it is wrapped around hands.It is easily detectable if manually examined.
Fitz had bad hands for years, earlier, when he smashed up Ruhlin he asked Ruhlin's manager for permission to wear extra gauze for their fight,which was granted.
Jeffries wore no wraps under his gloves,after the Armstrong fight, for which he did and injured his hand,and had to call off his second bout that night.

Jeffries examined Fitzsimmons' hands but either didn't notice the electrical tape or didn't care.

He proceeded to take a frightful beating from the 39 year old, before eventually catching him and knocking him out.

[Willie Pep 229]

Maybe I'm wrong about everyone loading their gloves.

They just had to cancel a fishing contest when they cut open the winning fish and found that soneone had inserted fishing weights; they then check every place finisher and found that EVERYONE had had weights shoved down EVERY FISH's throat. LOL

Fishing is going to give boxing a bad name.

[Ivich]

Yes lots of great stories. Everyone's got them.

Too many, that's my point. If you wanted to pretend to be 'in the know' you had to have a loaded glove story to tell. They all got their story to tell. I am certain you can find many of them to show me. I have read a hundred myself. That's my point!

RE ABOVE POST: I said both, "too many accusations and too many CLAIMS."

Smith is not accusing himself, he is bragging!

Back then saying your gloves were loaded made you 'cool' - fighters love to tell stories how they were 'one up' on their opponents, how they out foxed their opponents.

You depend too much on fighters stories; you trust them too much.

P.S. Rosin is interesting. Will think on that.

Your interpretation of these stories is interesting, but definitely not definitive.

[Ivich]

Jeffries examined Fitzsimmons' hands but either didn't notice the electrical tape or didn't care.

He proceeded to take a frightful beating from the 39 year old, before eventually catching him and knocking him out.

Jeffries and his chief second carefully examined Fitz's wraps,are you now telling that ,having detected loaded gloves,easily discernable,,they then said oh,okay we will let that go? Why would they inspect them in the first place if that was their attitude?
ps Electrical tape forms a brick on your hand.