Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[Ivich]

Oh boy where to start? I thought you said this was your last post the other day?

According to the Philadelphia Item, Jeannette was winning the fight until he was fouled. It wasn't the first time Johnson went low and he quit twice.

I told you and the board what the free masons where about. I shun those devil worriers and kid fiddlers Let me guess in addition to questionable groups you give the mason money too.

No ****** I said it was my last thread/topic .A thread /topic is a subject you make a new enquiry about inviting posters to give their opinions on. A post is a reply to a thread/topic.I see you are just as thick as you've always been no change there! What did you tell the Forum about the Masons?
Nothing!
Why? Because you know nothing about them!
You can't even write your libellous accusations correctly DEVIL WORRIERS! KID FIDDLERS

Lets just take a small sample of prominent American Masons you say were Devil Worshippers and Kiddie Fiddlers
Abraham LIncoln
George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Benjamin Franklin
Teddy Roosevelt
Lyndon Johnson
Harry Truman
Davey Crockett
Ronal Regan
Among others were Devil WORRIERS and KID FIDDLERS ?
Of course you have the evidence to support this?
Dont tell us,you have been sworn to secrecy and cannot divulge where you gained this knowledge!
Have you the slightest idea how completely unhinged you are?LOL

[Ivich]

Sure thing. Johnson almost 6’2”, McVey 5’10”. Johnson was never 178. His earliest recorded weight was 185. McVea was still 19 years old when they fought. If Loughran was too young for Greb at 21, then McVea and Langford were too young for Johnson. Unless you want to pitch them double standards to us one more time.

division	heavy
status	inactive
bouts	77
rounds	708
KOs	44.16%
career	1897-1931
debut	1897-11-01

ID#	001187
birth name	John Arthur Johnson
sex	male
alias	Galveston Giant
nationality	USA
stance	orthodox
height	6′ 0˝″ / 184cm
reach	74″ / 188cm

[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]

ID#	011622
birth name	Samuel E. MacVea
sex	male
alias	The Oxnard Cyclone
nationality	USA
stance	orthodox
height	5′ 10˝″ / 179cm
reach	75″ / 191cm
residence	Oxnard, California, USA
birth place	Waelder, Texas, USA

[/TD]
[/TR]

NB Taller does not mean bigger.
NB McVey was 20 for their last bout ,the one in which Johnson ko'd him after beating him up for20rds he was also 17lbs heavier than Johnson.
No doubt McVey improved as he grew older,is it your opinion that Johnson did not?
Johnson against McCormick .Pollack has the fight report.

1900-04-20
Jack Johnson168lbs Jim McCormick 175lbs

1903-02-26
Jack Johnson 178lbs v Sam McVey 203lbs

1903-02-05
Jack Johnson 180lbs v Denver Ed Martin 203lbs

1903-12-11
Jack Johnson 180lbs v Sandy Ferguson 210lbs
Johnson began boxing in the 160lbs region and is described in early fight reports as," that coloured middleweight"
1897-11-01
Jack Johnson wins the Texas Middleweight title against Charley Brooks
1897-11-20
Jack Johnson defends his Texas Middleweight title against Ed Johnson
This time you've learned something ,next time it may be me who does! Thats how these Forums are supposed to work!
Ignoring facts just leaves you as ignorant on the subject as you were before you began debating it!
Just accept it,I don't post what I can't prove .

[Ivich]

Jack "Chappie" Blackburn was another of the old-time black fighters who Johnson avoided. Particularly after getting schooled by Blackburn in a sparring match. Here is an interesting expert from an article I found:

The bad blood between Blackburn and Johnson was first spilled in 1908. Johnson had issued an open challenge for a sparring session in a Philadelphia gym, an offer that Blackburn had taken the soon-to-be champion up on, leaving a crimson stream pouring from Johnson’s nose and tarnishing that “golden smile” so reviled by the author of White Fang and Call of the Wild. On December 30th, four days after Johnson’s victory over Tommy Burns, the poker game Blackburn played with his older brother Fred, who had insulted Jack’s white common-law wife Maud Pillian, had devolved into a heated altercation. Fred slashed Jack’s face with a knife, resulting in the jagged semi-circular scar raising the flesh from beside his left eye to just below the bottom lip. Only two weeks later, the intervention of Blackburn and his friend Alonzo Polk only threw fuel onto the fire of an argument between Maud and Polk’s wife Matilda.

Jack shot Polk to death, once each in the neck and stomach, and reportedly struck Matilda in the back as she attempted to flee the scene, though she survived. Maud also caught an errant bullet during the pandemonium. Some accounts erroneously attribute a triple murder to Blackburn, suggesting a tangled web of lustful deceit which may or may not have been the case. What is certain is that, having been sentenced to 15 years for manslaughter, Blackburn appealed to Booker T. Washington, Sam Langford, and new world champion Jack Johnson for legal assistance and moral support. While Langford and Washington did what they could, Johnson-still mindful of the embarrassing beating suffered at Blackburn’s hands-is said to have replied, “Let the sonofa***** stay in jail.”

In1908 Blackburn scaled 147lbs to fight Jack O Brien162lbs.OBrien a non- puncher beat him up and floored him yet you say Johnson the heavyweight Champion avoided him? Do you know Blackburn was an absolute **** when he was drinking, everyone avoided him! Why would Johnson be afraid to tangle with an alcoholic former light weight?

[Ivich]

Johnson’s claim to fame is he is the first black champion, a defensive master with a wonderful jab and one of the best uppercuts in boxing history. He is also rated as one of hwt boxing’s greatest hwt champions.

Eddie Futch rates the three following as equals at the top.
Johnson,Louis,Ali.
But what would he know?

[Ivich]

Johnson also signed an agreement to fight Langford in 1909 and then reneged on the agreement and even lied about it. There is an article that speaks in more detail about this.

In1908 ,non champion Johnson signed to fight Langford for 3000 in London after he won the title he decided he wanted 30,000 for a title defence.The same amount Burns had received for defending against him.

[Ivich]

Ghost is lying once again.

Johnson completely dominated Langford sending him to the hospital at fights end. There is eye witness testimony and an admiral from Langfords Manager that illustrate that the bout was a one sided affair. You are either ignorant or a liar which is it?

Johnson floored Langford twice for long nine counts and 2 further times,closed his eye and broke his nose.

[Ivich]

Says you. Jeanette and McVey were crude and had their names elevated in the history books for having fought Johnson so many times.

Langford was far and away the superior boxer in every respect. You are hung up on nostalgia and folk lore.

Yet both beat Langford? How was that possible?

[GhostofDempsey]

In1908 ,non champion Johnson signed to fight Langford for 3000 in London after he won the title he decided he wanted 30,000 for a title defence.The same amount Burns had received for defending against him.

He had already signed a contract before winning the title, a title he knew he would win as Burns was much smaller and extremely limited. That was the beginning of the shell game.

[GhostofDempsey]

Yet both beat Langford? How was that possible?

Their styles. McVey and Jeannette were wrestlers and relied heavily upon clinching and leveraging their size against a smaller opponent.

[GhostofDempsey]

In1908 Blackburn scaled 147lbs to fight Jack O Brien162lbs.OBrien a non- puncher beat him up and floored him yet you say Johnson the heavyweight Champion avoided him? Do you know Blackburn was an absolute **** when he was drinking, everyone avoided him! Why would Johnson be afraid to tangle with an alcoholic former light weight?

That doesn't mean anything. Duran soundly defeated prime Leonard, Leonard defeated Hearns, and Hearns knocked out Duran. Who cares if Blackburn was a mean, angry drunk. He and Johnson despised one another, and Johnson got embarrassed by him in a sparring session.