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Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

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  • One doesn't have to hate JJ to believe him overrated.

    JJ was throughly abused during his career and over the past 50 years we have overcorrected for those wrongs via exaggeration of his boxing prowess and looked the other way regarding his personal wrongs.

    Come the 1960s the boxing wags were pushing each other out of the way so they could call Johnson the GOAT. Culminating in a pointless (but politically wise) pardon that was first called for during the rise of the Black Power Movement (in the '60s.)

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    • Originally posted by Ivich View Post
      1902-04-12 George Sullivan 2 0 0 Auditorium, Oxnard W-KO 6/20 bout score wiki
      McVea had fought twice before coming to Oxnard, once in Salinas and once in Australia; he had a reported record of 6-0-2 prior to this fight.
      Why would I need an excuse? Johnson dominated McVey in each of their fights,
      There were no amateurs back then. Chalk it up to an amateur level contest. I'm sure Johnson had many a non-sanctioned scrap that wasn't recorded either. All things being equal, he was older, bigger, and far more experienced than McVea and Jeannette when they fought.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Willie Pep 229 View Post
        One doesn't have to hate JJ to believe him overrated.

        JJ was throughly abused during his career and over the past 50 years we have overcorrected for those wrongs via exaggeration of his boxing prowess and looked the other way regarding his personal wrongs.

        Come the 1960s the boxing wags were pushing each other out of the way so they could call Johnson the GOAT. Culminating in a pointless (but politically wise) pardon that was first called for during the rise of the Black Power Movement (in the '60s.)
        Thats quite true but when documented evidence is presented,evidence that totally refutes the argument against Johnson,and that evidence is repeatedly ignored what other motive other than hatred can be attributed to it?
        travestyny travestyny likes this.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by GhostofDempsey View Post

          There were no amateurs back then. Chalk it up to an amateur level contest. I'm sure Johnson had many a non-sanctioned scrap that wasn't recorded either. All things being equal, he was older, bigger, and far more experienced than McVea and Jeannette when they fought.
          Older,yes. McVey was actually bigger.
          1903 Johnson 190 McVey 206=16lbs
          1903 Johnson178 Mcvey203=25lbs
          1904 Johnson190 McVey 207=17lbs

          Jeannette seems to have been around 185/190 in his fights with Johnson and always the lighter man,

          Johnson beat the Coloured Champion Denver Ed Martin over 20rds Martin was 6ft 31/2"and 23lbs heavier than Johnson

          See, it's been profitable for you after all!
          Last edited by Ivich; 08-31-2022, 03:09 PM.
          The Old LefHook The Old LefHook likes this.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ivich View Post
            Older,yes. McVey was actually quite a bit bigger.See its been profitable for you after all
            McVey bigger than Johnson? Not so.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by GhostofDempsey View Post

              McVey bigger than Johnson? Not so.
              What does this say to you?

              1903 Johnson 190 McVey 206=16lbs
              1903 Johnson178 Mcvey203=25lbs
              1904 Johnson190 McVey 207=17lbs

              Comment


              • Originally posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
                Monte Cox always praised Johnson for literally decades. He decides one day to be controversial and writes this drivel. Comparing Jones, really a lower skilled fighter, to Johnson who was classicly trained is a laugh riot.
                That before he saw many films and carefully reviewed his records. Jones by way had excellent skills compared the guys on film the Johnson fought.

                Hear this. The only time Johnson beat Sam Langford when Sam was 20 according to Clay Moyle the author of a Lagford book and 155 pounds! The victory means nothing. Sam hardly had any experience at heavyweight and was very young and green. Johnson was in his prime.

                Johnson also beat Sam Mcvey who was green and only a teenager.

                But what about Jeanette? He had no amateur experience was had a losing record when he meet Johnson and a .500 record near the last time.

                Theses are the facts. Jeanette climes he was 165 pounds. And was winning the match according to the Philly press before he was low blowed badly. Go aheads fanboys prove what I said was false. You can't .
                GhostofDempsey GhostofDempsey likes this.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ivich View Post

                  What does this say to you?

                  1903 Johnson 190 McVey 206=16lbs
                  1903 Johnson178 Mcvey203=25lbs
                  1904 Johnson190 McVey 207=17lbs
                  Sure thing. Johnson almost 6’2”, McVey 5’10”. Johnson was never 178. His earliest recorded weight was 185. McVea was still 19 years old when they fought. If Loughran was too young for Greb at 21, then McVea and Langford were too young for Johnson. Unless you want to pitch them double standards to us one more time.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Dr. Z View Post

                    That before he saw many films and carefully reviewed his records. Jones by way had excellent skills compared the guys on film the Johnson fought.

                    Hear this. The only time Johnson beat Sam Langford when Sam was 20 according to Clay Moyle the author of a Lagford book and 155 pounds! The victory means nothing. Sam hardly had any experience at heavyweight and was very young and green. Johnson was in his prime.

                    Johnson also beat Sam Mcvey who was green and only a teenager.

                    But what about Jeanette? He had no amateur experience was had a losing record when he meet Johnson and a .500 record near the last time.

                    Theses are the facts. Jeanette climes he was 165 pounds. And was winning the match according to the Philly press before he was low blowed badly. Go aheads fanboys prove what I said was false. You can't .
                    Neither Johnson or Langford weighed in Langford had over 50 fights under his belt
                    Jeannette CLIMES he was only165lbs? Their fight was in late November 1905.His next fight against Johnson was on 2nd Dec 1905 You sayJeannette CLIMED to weigh only165lbs for this fight yet in Feb 1906 just 2 months later Jeannette weighed185lbs for his next match against Johnson So he put on20lbs in2 months!.

                    Maybe Johnson hit him a Little harder than was appreciated at the time?lol

                    Here is a report of the Jeannette fight which he won by an" alleged foul."The only fight Jeannette won in their series when he MEET Johnson
                    WAS HAD YOU TO SAY ABOUT THAT?
                    After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul.Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow.He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance.
                    Philadelphia Public Ledger.
                    What would be Johnson's motive for fouling out in the 2nd round of a fight he was winning handily? Fouling out to a man he had beaten conclusively before and floored into the bargain?Johnson took onJeanette and another fighter on the same night and beat them both,.Why would he need to resort to fouling Jeannette?lol
                    THESES are the facts go AHEADS prove me wrong!LOL
                    Here is a segment of your attack on me I post it just to highlight what an
                    ABSOLUTE FRUIT LOOP YOU ARE

                    "He admits he was a free mason like the nuts who meet in secret "


                    Johnson was also a Free Mason! That clinches it!
                    WAS HAD YOU TO SAY ABOUT THESES?
                    Other Free Masons include
                    Presidents& Famous Men
                    Garfield
                    Mckinley
                    FDR
                    Teddy Roosevelt

                    Taft
                    Polk
                    Ford
                    Truman
                    Washington
                    LBJ
                    Andrew Johnson
                    James Monroe
                    Gen Macarthur
                    Regan
                    Al Gore
                    Davey Crockett
                    Lindbergh
                    Newt Gingrich
                    Taft
                    Dole
                    Garfield
                    Ben Franklin
                    Mark Twain
                    Andy Jackson
                    James Buchanan
                    Abraham Lincoln

                    Some Sportsmen
                    Jack Johnson
                    Ray Robinson
                    Arnold Palmer
                    Ossie Davis
                    Shaquile O Neal
                    Scottie Pippin
                    Ty Cobb
                    John Elway
                    Jack Dempsey

                    Some Black Brethren
                    Louis Armstrong
                    Duke Ellington
                    Count Basie
                    Medgar Evers
                    MLK Snr
                    MLK Jnr
                    Alex Haley
                    Booker T Washington
                    WB Dubois
                    Jesse Jackson
                    Paul Robeson
                    Richard Pryor
                    Colin Powell

                    Musicians
                    Burl Ives
                    Mozart
                    Liszt
                    Beethoven
                    John Phillip Sousa
                    Chopin
                    Mendelsson
                    George Gershwin
                    Sibelius
                    Roy Clark
                    Ray Acuff
                    Ferlin Husky
                    Nat Cole
                    Irving Berlin
                    Glenn Miller
                    Paul Whiteman

                    Miscellaneous
                    Six Kings Of England
                    Prince Phillip
                    Oscar Wilde
                    Rudyard Kipling
                    Winston Churchill
                    Five Other Prime Ministers of England.
                    John Wayne
                    Clark Gable
                    Seems your countries been run by lots of nuts over the years?
                    What would that make the voting population that elected them?
                    You see Dr Zzzzzz .
                    Before you condemn something you need to actually become informed about it.
                    Otherwise you just expose yourself as being;
                    A TOTAL MORON!
                    NB My apologies to all members of the Forum for going completely off topic, but sometimes LOONIES need to be held up to the light!
                    Last edited by Ivich; 08-31-2022, 06:21 PM.
                    travestyny travestyny likes this.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ivich View Post

                      Neither Johnson or Langford weighed in Langford had over 50 fights under his belt
                      Jeannette CLIMES he was only165lbs? Their fight was in late November 1905.His next fight against Johnson was on 2nd Dec 1905 You sayJeannette CLIMED to weigh only165lbs for this fight yet in Feb 1906 just 2 months later Jeannette weighed185lbs for his next match against Johnson So he put on20lbs in2 months!.

                      Maybe Johnson hit him a Little harder than was appreciated at the time?lol

                      Here is a report of the Jeannette fight which he won by an" alleged foul."The only fight Jeannette won in their series when he MEET Johnson
                      WAS HAD YOU TO SAY ABOUT THAT?
                      After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul.Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow.He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance.
                      Philadelphia Public Ledger.
                      What would be Johnson's motive for fouling out in the 2nd round of a fight he was winning handily? Fouling out to a man he had beaten conclusively before and floored into the bargain?Johnson took onJeanette and another fighter on the same night and beat them both,.Why would he need to resort to fouling Jeannette?lol
                      THESES are the facts go AHEADS prove me wrong!LOL
                      Here is a segment of your attack on me I post it just to highlight what an
                      ABSOLUTE FRUIT LOOP YOU ARE

                      "He admits he was a free mason like the nuts who meet in secret "


                      Johnson was also a Free Mason! That clinches it!
                      WAS HAD YOU TO SAY ABOUT THESES?
                      Other Free Masons include
                      Presidents& Famous Men
                      Garfield
                      Mckinley
                      FDR
                      Teddy Roosevelt

                      Taft
                      Polk
                      Ford
                      Truman
                      Washington
                      LBJ
                      Andrew Johnson
                      James Monroe
                      Gen Macarthur
                      Regan
                      Al Gore
                      Davey Crockett
                      Lindbergh
                      Newt Gingrich
                      Taft
                      Dole
                      Garfield
                      Ben Franklin
                      Mark Twain
                      Andy Jackson
                      James Buchanan
                      Abraham Lincoln

                      Some Sportsmen
                      Jack Johnson
                      Ray Robinson
                      Arnold Palmer
                      Ossie Davis
                      Shaquile O Neal
                      Scottie Pippin
                      Ty Cobb
                      John Elway
                      Jack Dempsey

                      Some Black Brethren
                      Louis Armstrong
                      Duke Ellington
                      Count Basie
                      Medgar Evers
                      MLK Snr
                      MLK Jnr
                      Alex Haley
                      Booker T Washington
                      WB Dubois
                      Jesse Jackson
                      Paul Robeson
                      Richard Pryor
                      Colin Powell

                      Musicians
                      Burl Ives
                      Mozart
                      Liszt
                      Beethoven
                      John Phillip Sousa
                      Chopin
                      Mendelsson
                      George Gershwin
                      Sibelius
                      Roy Clark
                      Ray Acuff
                      Ferlin Husky
                      Nat Cole
                      Irving Berlin
                      Glenn Miller
                      Paul Whiteman

                      Miscellaneous
                      Six Kings Of England
                      Prince Phillip
                      Oscar Wilde
                      Rudyard Kipling
                      Winston Churchill
                      Five Other Prime Ministers of England.
                      John Wayne
                      Clark Gable
                      Seems your countries been run by lots of nuts over the years?
                      What would that make the voting population that elected them?
                      You see Dr Zzzzzz .
                      Before you condemn something you need to actually become informed about it.
                      Otherwise you just expose yourself as being;
                      A TOTAL MORON!
                      NB My apologies to all members of the Forum for going completely off topic, but sometimes LOONIES need to be held up to the light!
                      Oh boy where to start? I thought you said this was your last post the other day?

                      According to the Philadelphia Item, Jeannette was winning the fight until he was fouled. It wasn't the first time Johnson went low and he quit twice.

                      I told you and the board what the free masons where about. I shun those devil worriers and kid fiddlers Let me guess in addition to questionable groups you give the mason money too.
                      Last edited by Dr. Z; 08-31-2022, 07:25 PM.

                      Comment

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