Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[Willie Pep 229]

One doesn't have to hate JJ to believe him overrated.

JJ was throughly abused during his career and over the past 50 years we have overcorrected for those wrongs via exaggeration of his boxing prowess and looked the other way regarding his personal wrongs.

Come the 1960s the boxing wags were pushing each other out of the way so they could call Johnson the GOAT. Culminating in a pointless (but politically wise) pardon that was first called for during the rise of the Black Power Movement (in the '60s.)

[GhostofDempsey]

1902-04-12				George Sullivan	2 0 0		Auditorium, Oxnard	W-KO	6/20		bout score wiki
McVea had fought twice before coming to Oxnard, once in Salinas and once in Australia; he had a reported record of 6-0-2 prior to this fight.

Why would I need an excuse? Johnson dominated McVey in each of their fights,

There were no amateurs back then. Chalk it up to an amateur level contest. I'm sure Johnson had many a non-sanctioned scrap that wasn't recorded either. All things being equal, he was older, bigger, and far more experienced than McVea and Jeannette when they fought.

[Ivich]

One doesn't have to hate JJ to believe him overrated.

JJ was throughly abused during his career and over the past 50 years we have overcorrected for those wrongs via exaggeration of his boxing prowess and looked the other way regarding his personal wrongs.

Come the 1960s the boxing wags were pushing each other out of the way so they could call Johnson the GOAT. Culminating in a pointless (but politically wise) pardon that was first called for during the rise of the Black Power Movement (in the '60s.)

Thats quite true but when documented evidence is presented,evidence that totally refutes the argument against Johnson,and that evidence is repeatedly ignored what other motive other than hatred can be attributed to it?

[Ivich]

There were no amateurs back then. Chalk it up to an amateur level contest. I'm sure Johnson had many a non-sanctioned scrap that wasn't recorded either. All things being equal, he was older, bigger, and far more experienced than McVea and Jeannette when they fought.

Older,yes. McVey was actually bigger.
1903 Johnson 190 McVey 206=16lbs
1903 Johnson178 Mcvey203=25lbs
1904 Johnson190 McVey 207=17lbs

Jeannette seems to have been around 185/190 in his fights with Johnson and always the lighter man,

Johnson beat the Coloured Champion Denver Ed Martin over 20rds Martin was 6ft 31/2"and 23lbs heavier than Johnson

See, it's been profitable for you after all!

[GhostofDempsey]

Older,yes. McVey was actually quite a bit bigger.See its been profitable for you after all

McVey bigger than Johnson? Not so.

[Ivich]

McVey bigger than Johnson? Not so.

What does this say to you?

1903 Johnson 190 McVey 206=16lbs
1903 Johnson178 Mcvey203=25lbs
1904 Johnson190 McVey 207=17lbs

[Dr. Z]

Monte Cox always praised Johnson for literally decades. He decides one day to be controversial and writes this drivel. Comparing Jones, really a lower skilled fighter, to Johnson who was classicly trained is a laugh riot.

That before he saw many films and carefully reviewed his records. Jones by way had excellent skills compared the guys on film the Johnson fought.

Hear this. The only time Johnson beat Sam Langford when Sam was 20 according to Clay Moyle the author of a Lagford book and 155 pounds! The victory means nothing. Sam hardly had any experience at heavyweight and was very young and green. Johnson was in his prime.

Johnson also beat Sam Mcvey who was green and only a teenager.

But what about Jeanette? He had no amateur experience was had a losing record when he meet Johnson and a .500 record near the last time.

Theses are the facts. Jeanette climes he was 165 pounds. And was winning the match according to the Philly press before he was low blowed badly. Go aheads fanboys prove what I said was false. You can't .

[GhostofDempsey]

What does this say to you?

1903 Johnson 190 McVey 206=16lbs
1903 Johnson178 Mcvey203=25lbs
1904 Johnson190 McVey 207=17lbs

Sure thing. Johnson almost 6’2”, McVey 5’10”. Johnson was never 178. His earliest recorded weight was 185. McVea was still 19 years old when they fought. If Loughran was too young for Greb at 21, then McVea and Langford were too young for Johnson. Unless you want to pitch them double standards to us one more time.

[Ivich]

That before he saw many films and carefully reviewed his records. Jones by way had excellent skills compared the guys on film the Johnson fought.

Hear this. The only time Johnson beat Sam Langford when Sam was 20 according to Clay Moyle the author of a Lagford book and 155 pounds! The victory means nothing. Sam hardly had any experience at heavyweight and was very young and green. Johnson was in his prime.

Johnson also beat Sam Mcvey who was green and only a teenager.

But what about Jeanette? He had no amateur experience was had a losing record when he meet Johnson and a .500 record near the last time.

Theses are the facts. Jeanette climes he was 165 pounds. And was winning the match according to the Philly press before he was low blowed badly. Go aheads fanboys prove what I said was false. You can't .

Neither Johnson or Langford weighed in Langford had over 50 fights under his belt
Jeannette CLIMES he was only165lbs? Their fight was in late November 1905.His next fight against Johnson was on 2nd Dec 1905 You sayJeannette CLIMED to weigh only165lbs for this fight yet in Feb 1906 just 2 months later Jeannette weighed185lbs for his next match against Johnson So he put on20lbs in2 months!.

Maybe Johnson hit him a Little harder than was appreciated at the time?lol

Here is a report of the Jeannette fight which he won by an" alleged foul."The only fight Jeannette won in their series when he MEET Johnson
WAS HAD YOU TO SAY ABOUT THAT?
After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul.Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow.He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance.
Philadelphia Public Ledger.
What would be Johnson's motive for fouling out in the 2nd round of a fight he was winning handily? Fouling out to a man he had beaten conclusively before and floored into the bargain?Johnson took onJeanette and another fighter on the same night and beat them both,.Why would he need to resort to fouling Jeannette?lol
THESES are the facts go AHEADS prove me wrong!LOL
Here is a segment of your attack on me I post it just to highlight what an
ABSOLUTE FRUIT LOOP YOU ARE
"He admits he was a free mason like the nuts who meet in secret "


Johnson was also a Free Mason! That clinches it!
WAS HAD YOU TO SAY ABOUT THESES?
Other Free Masons include
Presidents& Famous Men
Garfield
Mckinley
FDR
Teddy Roosevelt
Taft
Polk
Ford
Truman
Washington
LBJ
Andrew Johnson
James Monroe
Gen Macarthur
Regan
Al Gore
Davey Crockett
Lindbergh
Newt Gingrich
Taft
Dole
Garfield
Ben Franklin
Mark Twain
Andy Jackson
James Buchanan
Abraham Lincoln

Some Sportsmen
Jack Johnson
Ray Robinson
Arnold Palmer
Ossie Davis
Shaquile O Neal
Scottie Pippin
Ty Cobb
John Elway
Jack Dempsey

Some Black Brethren
Louis Armstrong
Duke Ellington
Count Basie
Medgar Evers
MLK Snr
MLK Jnr
Alex Haley
Booker T Washington
WB Dubois
Jesse Jackson
Paul Robeson
Richard Pryor
Colin Powell

Musicians
Burl Ives
Mozart
Liszt
Beethoven
John Phillip Sousa
Chopin
Mendelsson
George Gershwin
Sibelius
Roy Clark
Ray Acuff
Ferlin Husky
Nat Cole
Irving Berlin
Glenn Miller
Paul Whiteman

Miscellaneous
Six Kings Of England
Prince Phillip
Oscar Wilde
Rudyard Kipling
Winston Churchill
Five Other Prime Ministers of England.
John Wayne
Clark Gable
Seems your countries been run by lots of nuts over the years?
What would that make the voting population that elected them?
You see Dr Zzzzzz .
Before you condemn something you need to actually become informed about it.
Otherwise you just expose yourself as being;
A TOTAL MORON!
NB My apologies to all members of the Forum for going completely off topic, but sometimes LOONIES need to be held up to the light!

[Dr. Z]

Neither Johnson or Langford weighed in Langford had over 50 fights under his belt
Jeannette CLIMES he was only165lbs? Their fight was in late November 1905.His next fight against Johnson was on 2nd Dec 1905 You sayJeannette CLIMED to weigh only165lbs for this fight yet in Feb 1906 just 2 months later Jeannette weighed185lbs for his next match against Johnson So he put on20lbs in2 months!.

Maybe Johnson hit him a Little harder than was appreciated at the time?lol

Here is a report of the Jeannette fight which he won by an" alleged foul."The only fight Jeannette won in their series when he MEET Johnson
WAS HAD YOU TO SAY ABOUT THAT?
After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul.Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow.He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance.
Philadelphia Public Ledger.
What would be Johnson's motive for fouling out in the 2nd round of a fight he was winning handily? Fouling out to a man he had beaten conclusively before and floored into the bargain?Johnson took onJeanette and another fighter on the same night and beat them both,.Why would he need to resort to fouling Jeannette?lol
THESES are the facts go AHEADS prove me wrong!LOL
Here is a segment of your attack on me I post it just to highlight what an
ABSOLUTE FRUIT LOOP YOU ARE
"He admits he was a free mason like the nuts who meet in secret "


Johnson was also a Free Mason! That clinches it!
WAS HAD YOU TO SAY ABOUT THESES?
Other Free Masons include
Presidents& Famous Men
Garfield
Mckinley
FDR
Teddy Roosevelt
Taft
Polk
Ford
Truman
Washington
LBJ
Andrew Johnson
James Monroe
Gen Macarthur
Regan
Al Gore
Davey Crockett
Lindbergh
Newt Gingrich
Taft
Dole
Garfield
Ben Franklin
Mark Twain
Andy Jackson
James Buchanan
Abraham Lincoln

Some Sportsmen
Jack Johnson
Ray Robinson
Arnold Palmer
Ossie Davis
Shaquile O Neal
Scottie Pippin
Ty Cobb
John Elway
Jack Dempsey

Some Black Brethren
Louis Armstrong
Duke Ellington
Count Basie
Medgar Evers
MLK Snr
MLK Jnr
Alex Haley
Booker T Washington
WB Dubois
Jesse Jackson
Paul Robeson
Richard Pryor
Colin Powell

Musicians
Burl Ives
Mozart
Liszt
Beethoven
John Phillip Sousa
Chopin
Mendelsson
George Gershwin
Sibelius
Roy Clark
Ray Acuff
Ferlin Husky
Nat Cole
Irving Berlin
Glenn Miller
Paul Whiteman

Miscellaneous
Six Kings Of England
Prince Phillip
Oscar Wilde
Rudyard Kipling
Winston Churchill
Five Other Prime Ministers of England.
John Wayne
Clark Gable
Seems your countries been run by lots of nuts over the years?
What would that make the voting population that elected them?
You see Dr Zzzzzz .
Before you condemn something you need to actually become informed about it.
Otherwise you just expose yourself as being;
A TOTAL MORON!
NB My apologies to all members of the Forum for going completely off topic, but sometimes LOONIES need to be held up to the light!

Oh boy where to start? I thought you said this was your last post the other day?

According to the Philadelphia Item, Jeannette was winning the fight until he was fouled. It wasn't the first time Johnson went low and he quit twice.

I told you and the board what the free masons where about. I shun those devil worriers and kid fiddlers Let me guess in addition to questionable groups you give the mason money too.