Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[GhostofDempsey]

I was referring to Mcvey and Jeannette beating Langford .exactly how dense are you?
15 d Langford? What does this mean?
Hardly any expect at heavweight?Is this a code?
Neither Johnson or Langford weighed in. do you actually understand that?
Johnson did not bet he would stop Langford, nor did he try to.More BS from you.
Johnson knocked Langford down twice .some say 3 times,he broke his nose and as Langford himself said,
"gave me an awful licking."

Once he had established his dominance over a fighter Johnson rarely went for the finish,he was content to coast along, doing just enough to control the action.
I take it you've no further comment to make about me being a Free Mason?

That's the only sensible thing you've done since you started this hate campaign!

Johnson vs Langford was the equivalent of Hagler vs Holyfield as a cruiserweight. Any sane or reasonable fan would insist that Hagler/Holyfield would have been a drastic mismatch. Vegas odds would be off the charts in favor of Evander. Langford fought Johnson out of necessity. Not a lot of paydays to go around back then. He still went the distance and put on a valiant effort. As he grew into the division and gained more experience, he was ducked and dodged by Johnson.

[Ivich]

The video shows a lot of clinching and wrestling. Any attempt by Langford to box is negated by a clinch. Yawn.

Any time you are cheerleading for Johnson, you are essentially calling Langford a liar. It's in your post history. Here and elsewhere.

Langford lied when he stated he knocked Johnson down in their fight.Johnson lied when he said he laid down for Willard.
You say you've seen negative posts by me on other forums that I have a history of making them .since you must have been on these forums it will be a simple matter for you to copy and paste these posts .and post them here destroying my credibility as a poster.
SO WHY DON'T YOU DO IT?
I'm giving you an open challenge here and now to produce these posts.

Please do so!
Failure to do so means you are essentially admitting YOU ARE A LIAR!

[Ivich]

Johnson vs Langford was the equivalent of Hagler vs Holyfield as a cruiserweight. Any sane or reasonable fan would insist that Hagler/Holyfield would have been a drastic mismatch. Vegas odds would be off the charts in favor of Evander. Langford fought Johnson out of necessity. Not a lot of paydays to go around back then. He still went the distance and put on a valiant effort. As he grew into the division and gained more experience, he was ducked and dodged by Johnson.

Sam Langford was a by word for bravery and courage, has anyone ever disputed this, have I?
Have I ever stated the Langford v Johnson match gave us the definitive result and the definitive way such a match would go between the two of them in their respective primes? You are arguing with yourself!

[GhostofDempsey]

Sam Langford was a by word for bravery and courage, has anyone ever disputed this, have I?
Have I ever stated the Langford v Johnson match gave us the definitive result andthe definitive way such a match would go between the two of them in their respective primes? You are arguing with yourself!

You describe Johnson's victory as a brag, and make excuses for his drawing of the color line as champion. You're a Johnson apologist. You're so deep in your admiration of the man that you cannot bring yourself to admit he never gave a legitimate shot at his title to Langford, McVea or Jeanette. They claimed as much and they were there.

[Ivich]

Ben Franklin --> ephebophiles

Use to take naked 'wind baths' much to the delite to his giggling adolescent house maids.

But to be fair to old Ben the spring and summer of 1790 saw the capital city (NY, NY) filled with dignitaries trying to out do one another with the best/most scandalized Ben Franklin story they could muster. But the 'naked baths' was one of the more popular.

Cleveland Street scandal (1889) --> several prominent Lords were never pursued, never arrested, never prosecuted. The boys on the other hand served time and a newspaper reporter was silenced with threats of imposionment.

Oh, and Lord Churchill (dad) was eye balled by a witness as being the last man to be seen with an alive Mary Jane Kelly. Hours later she was un-alive.

This last one, the JTR story, is questionable but still placed the old man under su****ion and with him, the organization.

But of course the Freemasons are often un-fairly maligned - but any organization with prominent (rich) members and worst yet, the word 'secret' attached to its name, is bound to get a lot shlt slinged at it no matter what it does.

Like any organization, it itself, is not corrupt but it has had it share of corrupt members attached to it.

The big question has always been, did the organization look the other way, or even act to cover up these crimes?

Answer: Maybe, but those events were likely exceptions via the corruption of individuals, not policy the insitution itself. IMO

P.S. So what degree are you?

I'm unfamiliar with the Franklin story so cannot comment on it

. Im also unfamiliar with the Cleveland Street scandal,but just what exactly would it have to do with Free Masonry?
Lord Randolph Churchill? I don't know if he was a Mason or not.So again what is the relevance of this snippet of information? Randolph Churchiil died of syphilis that much I do know about him.
Free Masonry is not a secret society this is a common misperception made by those ignorant of the craft
.Rather it is a society of secrets.
Since it hasn't been established that any of these named,with the exception of Franklin were Masons
.I dont see any case to answer I'm afraid.
I can't tell you what rank I hold. suffice to say I have been in Masonry for 25 years and am a little above "a worker ant," not that brethren are judged by their rank or the ***els they have earned.
I will tell you that in the last 10 years my Mother Lodge and another friendly Lodge,have raised nearly Ł300,000 for charity. in our particular case, principally for handicapped children. Our fund raising activities for various charities are of course regularly interrupted for sessions of Devil Worrying, and Kid Fiddling but DR Z can bring you up to date on that ,he has all the info anyone would need to get the real lowdown on us.


EDIT.Just looked up the Cleveland Street Scandal.

The Cleveland Street scandal occurred in 1889, when a ****sexual male brothel and house of assignation on Cleveland Street, London, was discovered by police. The government was accused of covering up the scandal to protect the names of aristocratic and other prominent patrons.

At the time, sexual acts between men were illegal in Britain, and the brothel's clients faced possible prosecution and certain social ostracism if discovered. It was rumoured that Prince Albert Victor, the eldest son of the Prince of Wales and second-in-line to the British throne, had visited, though this has never been substantiated. Unlike overseas newspapers, the British press never named Albert Victor, but the allegation influenced the handling of the case by the authorities^[1] and has coloured biographers' perceptions of him since.

The police acquired testimonies that Lord Arthur Somerset, an equerry to the Prince of Wales, was a patron.^[2] Both he and the brothel keeper, Charles Hammond, managed to flee abroad before a prosecution could be brought. The male **********s, who also worked as telegraph messenger boys for the Post Office, were given light sentences and no clients were prosecuted. After Henry James FitzRoy, Earl of Euston, was named in the press as a client, he successfully sued for libel.

The scandal fuelled the attitude that male ****sexuality was an aristocratic vice that corrupted lower-class youths. Such perceptions were still prevalent in 1895 when the Marquess of Queensberry accused Oscar Wilde of being an active ****sexual.
I can't see any evidence that any of those involved were Masons,nor is the word Freemasonry or Masons mentioned .
So ,in the words of old Will," MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING".
Nice talking with you.

[Dr. Z]

Pep asked me a question? Did he ,I havent seen it yet when I do I'll answer it ,unlike you I do that.
"Other poster better watch out. Be careful of Mcvey / Tonto62 / Ivich will call you out as a man with no shirt on, blindfolded with someone sicking a compas or other sharp object in his back. That's what they do in the free mason when you want to join among other things."
"
Who told you this drivel? LOL " Sicking a compas" Are you on drugs?

You know what I'm talking about. A Compass needle is typical stick with that pointed edge in a blindfolded man's back. I'm talking about the initiation, you dolt. You must be the guys who makes sure the door is shut and stands guard watching a closed door. I don't want to join, no thanks. What level are you? A simple test on line will reveal if you're being honest or not.

[Ivich]

You know what I'm talking about. A Compass needle is typical stick with that pointed edge in a blindfolded man's back. I'm talking about the initiation, you dolt. You must be the guys who makes sure the door is shut and stands guard watching a closed door. I don't want to join, no thanks. What level are you? A simple test on line will reveal if you're being honest or not.

Why do you persist in confirming what we already know? That you are a MORON ,you can relax now.its common knowledge! lol

There is no test ,simple or otherwise which can tell you what level I have attained in Free Masonry.
You don't want to join? Who invited you? Stop embarrassing yourself you PLUM!

[Dr. Z]

You describe Johnson's victory as a brag, and make excuses for his drawing of the color line as champion. You're a Johnson apologist. You're so deep in your admiration of the man that you cannot bring yourself to admit he never gave a legitimate shot at his title to Langford, McVea or Jeanette. They claimed as much and they were there.

He drew the color line vs Langford, Jeannette and McVey. His top three contenders for many years ( 1908-1915 ). No with fights Wills when Jack was champion or after he was champion either He did not fight Gunboat Smith either who knocked Johnson silly to the point where he manger stopped the ex match in 1909. Smith of course beat Langford! A prime Langford whom Johnson avoided. He beat Willard, Moran, Tony Ross and Flynn. ( Johnson's title opponents ). He wasn't the white hope however that Johnson was looking for and surprise never got a title match himself.

Did not re-match O'Brien or Jim Battling either and he arguably lost both fights that are ruled a draw. Watch out now! Ivich is coming in 3...2...1

[Ivich]

You describe Johnson's victory as a brag, and make excuses for his drawing of the color line as champion. You're a Johnson apologist. You're so deep in your admiration of the man that you cannot bring yourself to admit he never gave a legitimate shot at his title to Langford, McVea or Jeanette. They claimed as much and they were there.

I don't admire Johnson, well his courage yes ,he was a man with many flaws not least his overweening conceit and vanity.
I've proven Johnson accepted offers to fight the black trio,accepted and signed for the fights.I've also proven they were cancelled through no fault of his own.You dont want to accept that fine.
Produce any article written by Sam McVey in which he says Johnson avoided him. Johnson and McVey were close friends Sam lived with the Johnsons for a time ,and Johnson paid for Sam's funeral.
After the failure of the two attempts to put on a title defence against Jeannette,Jeannette himself went into print absolving Johnson of any culpabilty in those fights not happening ,so was Jeannette lying ?
You don't want to believe that? That's perfectly okay by me,you're not calling me a liar you're calling all the newspaper reports that were published about it lies.
You're calling Geoffrey C Ward,Adam Pollack ,and Randy Roberts liars.


This is rather ironical, my favourite is Jack Dempsey ,the man Langford called the greatest heavyweight he had ever seen!

[Dr. Z]

Why do you persist in confirming what we already know? That you are a MORON ,you can relax now.its common knowledge! lol

There is no test ,simple or otherwise which can tell you what level I have attained in Free Masonry.
You don't want to join? Who invited you? Stop embarrassing yourself you PLUM!

The question which you are avoided is this. What level Mason are you? And no, the type of info I'm giving out is not on the web. I never saw it there. Prove to me it is. I haven't seen it.

Avoiding the question Mcvey? Or should I call you Tony, Tonto62, or Ivich? It painfully obvious I've got you. The other posters do too. And yes there is a test that any mason who ranks high enough would know! Again what level are you? I can't wait to show the board you lying again.