Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[GhostofDempsey]

What footage have you seen of McVey and Jeannete clinching and using their weight on smaller opponents?
In which fights?
I have ringside reports of the Jeannete v Mcvey Paris marathon.
The Langford v McVey Australian controversial fight.
The Langford v Hague London fight ,Sam's best purse.
The Langford v Lang London fight.
The first Langford v Flynn fight.
The McVey v Battling Jim fight.
The first Jeannette v Battling Jim fight.
Four of the Jeannette v Johnson fights.
The three McVey v Johnson fights.
WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

NOPE YOU ARE AS USUAL MISTAKEN.
I am a huge admirer of Langford and bought Clay Moyle's biography on him, I have also corresponded with Clay about Langford and Clay and I are Face Book friends . I along with the majority consider Clay the acknowledged expert on Sam.
His book is thoroughly recommended
So you could not be more wrong!
.Langford is in my top 5 P4P all time and I would not argue with anyone putting him higher, he was a very great fighter.
.Maybe the best never to hold the heavyweight crown.
You've seen no negative posts on any forum from me concerning Langford so,you are either .
lying or you are being coached in lies by a liar ie Mendoza..If you don't feel rather silly now, you should!
Keep It Coming! It's raining here and I welcome the diversion!

In this video, Jeannette is clearly moving in for a clinch each time Langford attempts to box him. In all the footage I've seen of either Jeannette or McVey, they use a lot of clinching, Johnson and Wills too, especially when they were fighting smaller opponents.

Here's another fun wrestling match

Ooooh, you're facebook friends with Clay Moyle, well then, that changes everything...you must be an authority on Langford then! LOL

I've seen enough of your posts on that other forum to know where you stand and how you play. You're not fooling anyone. Take a walk in the rain, you can use the cleansing.

[Willie Pep 229]

I've adressed the points on other forums literally dozens of times but haters like you and G O Dempsey don't want to hear it.You both just want to unload your venom on Johnson
Now I'll answer your lies, not for you two bigots but for anyone who might be interested in the real facts.
Fact. Neither Johnson or O Brien [ not O Brein] weighed in for their 6rds no decision bout.
This was Johnson's 1 st defence of his title,in the 5 months since winning his ttile Johnson had been partying hard.. Johnson knowing O Brien had no punch and that therefore he was in no danger of losing his title in a 6 rounds no decision bout, took the opportunity to come in overweight and untrained.He was at a party the night before the fight.Entering the ring he was described as fat.O Brien as in terrific shape.
Any genuine posters wishing to know details can pm me.You two clowns ignore facts so there is no point in presenting them to you.Here is the Box Rec brief summary.

"Three or four times during the mix-ups, O'Brien was roughed to the floor, and once he got tangled in the ropes." (Philadelphia Inquirer). The Philadelphia Inquirer scored for Johnson. Wilkes-Barre Times Leader had O'Brien winning three rounds, with two even, and 5th round to Johnson (same report was printed in NY Sun and Washington Herald). The NY Times ruled it a draw. Trenton Times reported that the referee stated he thought O'Brien the winner by a shade. The Sports editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer in May 23 issue wrote: "A half dozen writers, for instance, gave Johnson the credit of having won the bout, but no two of them agreed as to the distance by which he won, and if you read all these accounts you must have come to the conclusion that he won at any distance from a whisker to a city block. And it was the same with the able gentlemen who espoused the O'Brien cause. Some declared that he won all the way, and that but for his willingness to take the initiative there would have been no milling at all, while others gave him the decision solely for the splendid showing he made against such a tremendous physical handicap." The Philadelphia Item stated that O'Brien soundly out-boxed Johnson. All-in-all, it seems that the best choice would be to show it as a draw. It must be borne in mind that
1.Johnson was boxing in O Brien's home town.
2.O Brien was white,Johnson black.
3. A clever light heavyweight, O Brien was the 175lbs champion ,can make a heavyweight look less than brilliant in a 6 rounder especially if that heavyweight has not taken the fight seriously and come in over weight ,and out of shape,[Johnson was described as breathing heavily as early as the end of the first round,]and the light heavyweight contents himself with back pedalling all night and makes no serious effort to make the fight.
Jim Jeffries was asked about the fight the next day he said he wasnt surprised that O Brien went the distance.as he was known as a clever defensive boxer and such a fighter could make any man look bad for 6 rounds.
There was no demand for another fight between the two as even the Philadelphia papers conceded.
I think this puts things into perspective.
It should be noted that O Brien could never master Tommy Burns and Johnson toyed with Burns before stopping him . O Brien was also twice ko'd by Ketchel,Johnson toyed with Ketchel before knocking him out.

Jim Johnson.
The champion was 35 years old and had not fought for a year and a half.
The champ broke a bone in his arm in the 3rd round,until then he was described as toying with his opponent.Instead of quitting as Harry Wills did with a similar injury against Battling JIm, Johnson continued to fight through the pain ,the ten rounder developed into a maul the champ fighting one handed and the challenger unable to get the better of even a one handed version of Jack Johnson.The fight was ruled a draw and nobody protested it.
The Evening World did not have a reporter present at the fight thue relied on an AP report.
Mendoza once tried to claim it was a scheduled 20 rounder that was shortened to 10 rounds to save Johnson's title but a very good poster posted the original bill showing that it was always scheduled for 10 rounds,whereupon Mendoza quietly folded his tent and crept away.
Johnson'a style would not work against bigger men such as Willard and Battling Jim?
Against Willard the 37 years old Johnson was in front after 25 round and the referee stated had he been called upon to render a decision after 20 rounds he would have unhesitatingly have awarded the fight to Johnson. So what exactly about his style didnt work against the giant?

Battling Jim couldn't beat a one armed,physically handicapped and in pain Johnson ,so Johnson's style did not let him down against his opponent did it?
Battling Jim was not of the first rank but he did gain victories over the following;
Jeannette x2
Wills
Arthur Pelkey
Bill Tate
Kid Cotton
Black Bill
Jeff Clark

He also held to a draw
Langford
McVey
Jeanette
That answers your lies.
The French Federation backtracked on their decison to strip Johnson of his title less than a month later and restored recognition to Johnson,outside of France nobody noticed and nobody cared.

You raised the issue of Free Masonry NOT ME and you did so in an attempt to discredit me.
Stating they were "devil worshippers [you ****ed up there calling them devil worriers]lol and Kid Fiddlers
When I produced a list of former masons including many Presidents,Kings ,Prime Ministers etc you realised your error and dropped it!
Now you ,who are not a Mason ,and have no inside knowledge of it, say that it is a pyramid scheme and that I am of the low order,"a worker ant"

1.Explain how this "pyramid scheme," works?
2.Which Presidents ,were"devil worshippers " and which were" kid fiddlers"?
Are
George Washington
Abraham Lincoln
FDR
LBJ
Ronald Reagan
Harry Truman
In this category?
How about other Masons?
Martin Luther King
General MaCarthur
Benjamin Franklin
Ray Robinson
Jack Dempsey
John Wayne
Mark Twain
Arnold Palmer
Ty Cobb
Which of these were *****philes?
Which of these worshipped the devil?
Careful how you answer the following two questions
As I am a Mason
Am I a devil worshipper?
Am I a *****phile?


You have no idea how the hierachy of Free Masonry works, nor have you the slightest clue as to what rank I have attained within it.
In closing you are an ignorant, bigoted fool, driven by a hate agenda who would be looked upon with pity if he were not so phobically deluded ,and poisonous.
You really need help!
Now can we return to BOXING?

Ben Franklin --> ephebophiles

Use to take naked 'wind baths' much to the delite to his giggling adolescent house maids.

But to be fair to old Ben the spring and summer of 1790 saw the capital city (NY, NY) filled with dignitaries trying to out do one another with the best/most scandalized Ben Franklin story they could muster. But the 'naked baths' was one of the more popular.

Cleveland Street scandal (1889) --> several prominent Lords were never pursued, never arrested, never prosecuted. The boys on the other hand served time and a newspaper reporter was silenced with threats of imposionment.

Oh, and Lord Churchill (dad) was eye balled by a witness as being the last man to be seen with an alive Mary Jane Kelly. Hours later she was un-alive.

This last one, the JTR story, is questionable but still placed the old man under su****ion and with him, the organization.

But of course the Freemasons are often un-fairly maligned - but any organization with prominent (rich) members and worst yet, the word 'secret' attached to its name, is bound to get a lot shlt slinged at it no matter what it does.

Like any organization, it itself, is not corrupt but it has had it share of corrupt members attached to it.

The big question has always been, did the organization look the other way, or even act to cover up these crimes?

Answer: Maybe, but those events were likely exceptions via the corruption of individuals, not policy the insitution itself. IMO

P.S. So what degree are you?

[Ivich]

In this video, Jeannette is clearly moving in for a clinch each time Langford attempts to box him. In all the footage I've seen of either Jeannette or McVey, they use a lot of clinching, Johnson and Wills too, especially when they were fighting smaller opponents.

Here's another fun wrestling match

Ooooh, you're facebook friends with Clay Moyle, well then, that changes everything...you must be an authority on Langford then! LOL

I've seen enough of your posts on that other forum to know where you stand and how you play. You're not fooling anyone. Take a walk in the rain, you can use the cleansing.

I'm an expert on no fighter and you would do yourself a favour by reading Clays book.I repeat you've read no negative posts from me on Sam Langford on any Forum.
See my post on the Langford v Wills thread to see where I place Langford in boxings pantheon.
I offered you an olive branch some time. ago you didn't want to go down that route,thats your prerogative .
You can form a tag team with Mendoza, as disgraceful an excuse for a man as I've encountered on the internet.
You talk about cleansing? You who call your President a *****phile from the anonymity of the internet?
Just interacting with you makes me feel dirty.
Well now you've got a partner in crime, I hope you'll both be happy because you thoroughly deserve one another,and no worse insult could I offer anyone!

[GhostofDempsey]

I'm an expert on no fighter and you would do yourself a favour by reading Clays book.I repeat you've read no negative posts from me on Sam Langford on any Forum.
See my post on the Langford v Wills thread to see where I place Langford in boxings pantheon.
I offered you an olive branch some time. ago you didn't want to go down that route,thats your prerogative .
You can form a tag team with Mendoza, as disgraceful an excuse for a man as I've encountered on the internet.
You talk about cleansing? You who call your President a *****phile from the anonymity of the internet?
Just interacting with you makes me feel dirty.
Well now you've got a partner in crime, I hope you'll both be happy because you thoroughly deserve one another,and no worse insult could I offer anyone!

I own and have read Moyle's book. Of course you glossed over the actual video footage that proves my position. Jeannette and McVey relied heavily on clinching and using their size and weight.

You're back on politics again. My president took showers with his daughter...she thought they were inappropriate, he sniffs and touches young girls inappropriately. He's had at least 7 women file sexual harassment and assault accusations against him. The party that "believes all women" certainly didn't believe them. You can connect the dots on that one, or continue to bury your head in the sand while insisting no one else knows what they are talking about. We are all just unkempt slobs who have an agenda against Johnson, and are ignorant for not bowing down at the alter of Ivich.

[Ivich]

I own and have read Moyle's book. Of course you glossed over the actual video footage that proves my position. Jeannette and McVey relied heavily on clinching and using their size and weight.

You're back on politics again. My president took showers with his daughter...she thought they were inappropriate, he sniffs and touches young girls inappropriately. He's had at least 7 women file sexual harassment and assault accusations against him. The party that "believes all women" certainly didn't believe them. You can connect the dots on that one, or continue to bury your head in the sand while insisting no one else knows what they are talking about. We are all just unkempt slobs who have an agenda against Johnson, and are ignorant for not bowing down at the alter of Ivich.

Mendoza is an ignorant slob ,you're smarter so have no excuse.
I see you glossed over my invitation to provide any negative posts I've ever made about Langford ?
Boy did you get that one wrong!
Has your President ever been convicted of any of these accusations? I always thought a man was innocent until he was proven guilty?
I wonder if you would be so keen to believe the worst if ***** was a ********** you two- faced hypocrite!
ps It's ALTAR! Not ALTER !

[GhostofDempsey]

Mendoza is an ignorant slob ,you're smarter so have no excuse
Has your President ever been convicted of any of these accusations? I always thought a man was innocent until he was proven guilty?
I wonder if you would be so keen to believe the worst if ***** was a ********** you two- faced hypocrite!
ps It's ALTAR!

Ah, so you must believe that all politicians are truthful and that none of them have executive privilege or are insulated from prosecution. Must be nice to live in a world full of denial and willful ignorance. I'm not a **********, so nice try.

Are you correcting my grammar? The man who doesn't use punctuation?

Why are you using politics to deflect from the topic of this thread? Is it because you know you've lost the argument and haven't got a leg to stand on? Desperately clinging to straws now.

[Ivich]

Ah, so you must believe that all politicians are truthful and that none of them have executive privilege or are insulated from prosecution. Must be nice to live in a world full of denial and willful ignorance. I'm not a **********, so nice try.

Are you correcting my grammar? The man who doesn't use punctuation?

Why are you using politics to deflect from the topic of this thread? Is it because you know you've lost the argument and haven't got a leg to stand on? Desperately clinging to straws now.

Nope I believe Trump is a pathological liar and probably the worst President you've had.
The Jeannette v Langford the couple of seconds we see of it shows Jeannette boxing from range and tying Langford up in the clinches. When possible Jeannette goes back to working at range behinds his left lead
The McVey v Johnson shows Mcvey the smaller man NOT trying to lean on Johnson and use his weight on him ,because he was the LIGHTER man!
Got those negative posts I made about Langford sorted yet?

[GhostofDempsey]

Nope I believe Trump is a pathological liar and probably the worst President you've had.
The Jeannette v Langford the couple of seconds we see of it shows Jeannette boxing from range and tying Langford up in the clinches. When possible Jeannette goes back to working at range behinds his left lead
The McVey v Johnson shows Mcvey the smaller man NOT trying to lean on Johnson and use his weight on him ,because he was the LIGHTER man!
Got those negative posts I made about Langford sorted yet?

The video shows a lot of clinching and wrestling. Any attempt by Langford to box is negated by a clinch. Yawn.

Any time you are cheerleading for Johnson, you are essentially calling Langford a liar. It's in your post history. Here and elsewhere.

[Dr. Z]

I'm an expert on no fighter and you would do yourself a favour by reading Clays book.I repeat you've read no negative posts from me on Sam Langford on any Forum.
See my post on the Langford v Wills thread to see where I place Langford in boxings pantheon.
I offered you an olive branch some time. ago you didn't want to go down that route,thats your prerogative .
You can form a tag team with Mendoza, as disgraceful an excuse for a man as I've encountered on the internet.
You talk about cleansing? You who call your President a *****phile from the anonymity of the internet?
Just interacting with you makes me feel dirty.
Well now you've got a partner in crime, I hope you'll both be happy because you thoroughly deserve one another,and no worse insult could I offer anyone!

No -- he's not my partner in crime. I don't know who Pep is, but he asked you a question. What level mason are you? Boy you certainly are winning friends and influencing people here. Other poster better watch out. Be careful of Mcvey / Tonto62 / Ivich will call you out as a man with no shirt on, blindfolded with someone sicking a compas or other sharp object in his back. That's what they do in the free mason when you want to join among other things. He can tell you! So, what level are you?

[Ivich]

No -- he's not my partner in crime. I don't know who Pep is, but he asked you a question. What level mason are you? Boy you certainly are winning friends and influencing people here. Other poster better watch out. Be careful of Mcvey / Tonto62 / Ivich will call you out as a man with no shirt on, blindfolded with someone sicking a compas or other sharp object in his back. That's what they do in the free mason when you want to join among other things. He can tell you! So, what level are you?

Pep asked me a question? Did he ,I havent seen it yet when I do I'll answer it ,unlike you I do that.
"Other poster better watch out. Be careful of Mcvey / Tonto62 / Ivich will call you out as a man with no shirt on, blindfolded with someone sicking a compas or other sharp object in his back. That's what they do in the free mason when you want to join among other things."
"
Who told you this drivel? LOL " Sicking a compas" Are you on drugs?