The "Phantom Punch."

[HOUDINI563]

Typo...should read Ali Liston 2.

[OctoberRed]

Read the SI article. Those sitting where the SI reporter was sitting were in position to see the punch clearly. The writer states those at ringside did not see a fix. They saw a legitimate KO blow.

Exactly. I read that myself.

[Anthony342]

Maybe not a fix, but a boxer that gave up after being knocked down and horrible refereeing. Can we at least agree on that?

[joseph5620]

Both fighters very clearly doubted the KO power of the punch and qualified their view with politeness.

Marciano never said he doubted the power. In fact he said Ali did put some power into the punch. None of that matters anyway. None of those people took the punch.

[Joe Beamish]

Marciano never said he doubted the power. In fact he said Ali did put some power into the punch. None of that matters anyway. None of those people took the punch.

Please. Stick to the facts. Marciano sat ringside and from his vantage point did not see how Ali could have thrown a punch with much power. (This contradicts the earlier post claiming that everyone who sat ringside saw a KO punch.) Then upon viewing the film, Marciano said Ali threw some power into the last 6 inches of the punch. So, Marciano is noncommital.

Dempsey watched the film and said he never saw the punch go over. And said he expected foul play before the fight, and would say no more, because “if you can’t say anything nice....”

These are examples of fighters not exactly providing a unanimous endorsement of the KO power of the phantom punch.

The whole tenor of the TV segment is one of significant doubt after watching the film.

What I see is Liston quitting. I never saw another shot like that from Ali, before or after that fight, ever.

[QueensburyRules]

--- That's cause Step'nFetchit packed his Anchor Punch with his bags never to be seen again until Vitali replicated it vs Solis with different results

[joseph5620]

Please. Stick to the facts. Marciano sat ringside and from his vantage point did not see how Ali could have thrown a punch with much power. (This contradicts the earlier post claiming that everyone who sat ringside saw a KO punch.) Then upon viewing the film, Marciano said Ali threw some power into the last 6 inches of the punch. So, Marciano is noncommital.

Dempsey watched the film and said he never saw the punch go over. And said he expected foul play before the fight, and would say no more, because “if you can’t say anything nice....”

These are examples of fighters not exactly providing a unanimous endorsement of the KO power of the phantom punch.

The whole tenor of the TV segment is one of significant doubt after watching the film.

What I see is Liston quitting. I never saw another shot like that from Ali, before or after that fight, ever.

He didn't say that he doubted the power of the punch in the video you posted. So if you're going to post a video you should be the one sticking to the facts without using your personal spin on what someone actually says in the video.


As far as Dempsey is concerned, his opinion is no more relevant than anybody else who saw the fight. Especially since his attitude towards the fight was negative from the beginning which is laughable to me.

[Joe Beamish]

They watched the fight and were obviously unconvinced in a powerful KO punch.

As Marciano said, Ali was not in a position to throw with power.

[QueensburyRules]

--- Yo, Joe, most all of boxing and the public were dismissive after Liston quit the first fight.

Mob fighters don't quit unless told to, hence the WBA stripping Ali and the rematch in the most remote city in the US where few could witness the farce...next!

[Joe Beamish]

Yup. Here's Marciano in 1966. At 2:55, he still characterizes both Liston fights, and thus Ali's specific accomplishment in winning them, as "dubious." This is of course after watching the film of the KO any number of times, and attending the fight ringside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFUJ3KDjrlI