The "Phantom Punch."

[johnbook]

Why do people, including some authors continue on with this.
You can easily see the punch on yt. Furthermore you can see the effect on Liston's head.

People in the arena--including Liston -- may not have seen it because it was short and fast, but it's easily seen on film.

The other big lie is that, it's then used to proclaim the fight was fixed by--take your pick: Mob, NOI, other.

I think the KD was genuine, and then Liston could have gotten up. Ali sure wanted him to. But Walcott did a terrible job as ref. The #1 thing is to get the one who did the KD to a neutral corner asap. The timekeeper's got the count.

Walcott leaves them with Ali standing over Liston and goes to the timekeeper. Liston may have realized it was prudent not to try to get up with Ali about to hit him again.

You could make a case for a no decision based on ref's incompetence.

I hope Walcott didn't ref again

Maybe not widely known, but Liston did some reffing.

[HOUDINI563]

Very true. If you watch Liston after the bout is stopped and people are clamoring into the ring Liston as he is walking does a stutter step still staggering from the blow. Furthermore in his dressing room he asked his handlers for smelling salts. Liston never asked for smelling salts before. Finally Ali was knocking opponents out with similar punches...a very quick lead right as his opponents stepped in compounding the fires of the blow. This was not a unique punch.

Also read the SI article from right after the fight. Those at ringside who SAW the punch saw a KO blow. Those include Patterson, DaMato, Torres.

[johnbook]

Very true. If you watch Liston after the bout is stopped and people are clamoring into the ring Liston as he is walking does a stutter step still staggering from the blow. Furthermore in his dressing room he asked his handlers for smelling salts. Liston never asked for smelling salts before. Finally Ali was knocking opponents out with similar punches...a very quick lead right as his opponents stepped in compounding the fires of the blow. This was not a unique punch.

Also read the SI article from right after the fight. Those at ringside who SAW the punch saw a KO blow. Those include Patterson, DaMato, Torres.

Thanks. Didn't know about SI article.
Authors still writing, years later, that there was no punch. Like the terrible book by Kram and others.

[HOUDINI563]

Unfortunately their goal is to sell books not to state truths. Writers look for any different angle they can true or not in order to build a story many want to read.

[Anthony342]

But even though it's a real punch, it's believed Liston stayed down because the mob guys and possibly Liston himself, bet on a first round knockout win by Ali, leading to a great financial windfall for all of them.

[GhostofDempsey]

It wasn't enough of a punch that would have knocked him out. Also, look at his reaction while lying on his back, he shields his eyes from the bright lights. A knocked out fighter isn't conscious enough to worry about shielding his eyes from lights. Ali got two gifts versus Liston, the first one can be argued ad nauseum, the rematch--that one has fix written all over it.

[johnbook]

No fix. Grossly incompetent ref, Walcott.

Instead of 2 fixes, the 2 Liston losses to Clay/Ali appear to demonstrate that at that P.I.T. Liston at least vis-a-vis Ali had a bit of a yellow streak and did not want to risk a KO from Ali.

In other words, Liston said "no mas" twice.

[Zmerai Khan]

Liston is definitely playing the part. I don't think he saw the punch coming, and he's definitely not the fighter he'd been a decade before. I won't dispute any of that. But he looks like he's acting when he hits the mat.

[Zmerai Khan]

Very true. If you watch Liston after the bout is stopped and people are clamoring into the ring Liston as he is walking does a stutter step still staggering from the blow. Furthermore in his dressing room he asked his handlers for smelling salts. Liston never asked for smelling salts before. Finally Ali was knocking opponents out with similar punches...a very quick lead right as his opponents stepped in compounding the fires of the blow. This was not a unique punch.

Also read the SI article from right after the fight. Those at ringside who SAW the punch saw a KO blow. Those include Patterson, DaMato, Torres.

It was a nice punch. Not unlike one that had landed a minute before. But Liston had walked through bigger punches. Ali never replicated that either. Not even when he grew into his frame and was forced to sit down on his punches.

In Boxing, but especially MMA we see guys get touched and fold. It happens. But Liston's reaction looks forced.

[HOUDINI563]

In his prime Ali’s reflexes were so fast. He would catch opponents coming in with lead rights they never saw coming. You see similar blows that koed Folley.