Marciano 49-0 vs. Mayweather 49-0.

[IronDanHamza]

Why do you always pick apart something unimportant rather than the main point? So I ask you, what prime ATGs did Floyd beat in his career. Not hall of famers, but ATGs.

Hardly unimportant.

"Beating the man" in Boxing is generally beating the Lineal Champion and Floyd did that numerous times.

[Anthony342]

Course he should but Chavez wasn't in his prime then.

Ok but still the fact is is that It's not a regular thing to beat a prime ATG. Loads of great fighters didn't.

Now you are moving the goalpost, which prime ATG should Floyd have fought? I only see Pacquaio and why that fight didn't happen earlier is another story all together.

Well yeah I agree with you on that his resume isn't as strong as other ATG's but what is your point?

THAT is my point. Not moving the goal post, it's what I've meant all along. It's more me saying you're making good points and that maybe I should've worded things differently. Maybe I didn't explain it better, but that is what I've been getting at. And like I said, still good wins, 4 time lineal champion and great defensive and athletic skill. I'm just saying, resume could've been just a little bit better. He calling himself the best ever is pretty much where this criticism comes from.

[Anthony342]

No I never said that.

I said he's overrated and not an ATG.

AH. WELL Uh yeah, that makes sense. That Michael Nunn win was still nice and was good to see the Jones fight happen, even though he was dominated.

[Anthony342]

Why change the question?

What prime ATG did Joe Louis beat?

But were there any for him to beat that he didn't fight though, which would be the point in his case.

Do Schmeling and Braddock not count? Other than that, can't think of any, but I don't know as much boxing from before about the '60s. But it's not like people said he should've fought this guy or that guy. And going to the original question here, that would pretty much be the only thing that Marciano would have over Mayweather.

All the rest of the boxes on the check list would tick in Floyd's favor though, so I'd still pick his overall record over The Rock's. Well, the original Rock, at least in boxing. Pro wrestling had Rocky Johnson, Don Muraco and Rocky's son Dwayne.

[Anthony342]

Hardly unimportant.

"Beating the man" in Boxing is generally beating the Lineal Champion and Floyd did that numerous times.

Hmmm true. Which is what I would say gets him in that Top 20 all time level.

[IronDanHamza]

THAT is my point. Not moving the goal post, it's what I've meant all along. It's more me saying you're making good points and that maybe I should've worded things differently. Maybe I didn't explain it better, but that is what I've been getting at. And like I said, still good wins, 4 time lineal champion and great defensive and athletic skill. I'm just saying, resume could've been just a little bit better. He calling himself the best ever is pretty much where this criticism comes from.

Well any elite, ATG should consider themselves the best.

Well I agree his resume could have been better but same goes for loads of fighters again.

[IronDanHamza]

AH. WELL Uh yeah, that makes sense. That Michael Nunn win was still nice and was good to see the Jones fight happen, even though he was dominated.

Is that sarcasm? Because I can't tell.

I never said Toney "was never that good". He is good, he's very good. He's a first ballot HOF'er but he is not great.

[IronDanHamza]

But were there any for him to beat that he didn't fight though, which would be the point in his case.

Do Schmeling and Braddock not count? Other than that, can't think of any, but I don't know as much boxing from before about the '60s. But it's not like people said he should've fought this guy or that guy. And going to the original question here, that would pretty much be the only thing that Marciano would have over Mayweather.

All the rest of the boxes on the check list would tick in Floyd's favor though, so I'd still pick his overall record over The Rock's. Well, the original Rock, at least in boxing. Pro wrestling had Rocky Johnson, Don Muraco and Rocky's son Dwayne.

No Louis didn't but which ATG did Floyd miss? I only see Pacquaio and why that fight didn't happen is VERY debatable.

Marciano didn't beat any prime ATG's either. No he didn't miss anyone. (Arguably Patterson but not really) but he still didn't beat any.

[billeau2]

No Louis didn't but which ATG did Floyd miss? I only see Pacquaio and why that fight didn't happen is VERY debatable.

Marciano didn't beat any prime ATG's either. No he didn't miss anyone. (Arguably Patterson but not really) but he still didn't beat any.

I think the heavyweights have to be evaluated differently. You have a much smaller division, so the chances of two ATG's at a time is warped... The exception to this, ironickly, is when the heavy weight division is weak and very talented guys come up to grab low hanging fruit.

I do think competition for the heavyweights is a factor, but ATG x 2 is a bit much to ask for one division. So for example, guys like Schmelling and Conn were tough guys, also Bauer... that was great comp to beat. Tyson has it tougher because he lost to guys who were great fighters consistantly.

Guys like Monzon, Jofre, etc are average sized, and can even fight up and down... the chance that they run into a fellow great is expanded considerably.

[Dempsey-Louis]

On a side note: In regards to Marciano I would argue that Roland La Starza was a better fighter than is commonly accepted and for that defense Marciano should receive a touch more credit then he usually gets .