Marciano 49-0 vs. Mayweather 49-0.

[DreamFighter]

Did you ever look at Archie Moore's record, he fought 3 Pro Wrestlers including the Million Dollar Man's step-father Mike DiBiase in his last fight. All 3 ended the exact same way, stopped by a cut eye in the 3rd round. None of these 3 ever fought before or after there fight with Moore!

that is very interesting, thank you.

[billeau2]

Did you ever look at Archie Moore's record, he fought 3 Pro Wrestlers including the Million Dollar Man's step-father Mike DiBiase in his last fight. All 3 ended the exact same way, stopped by a cut eye in the 3rd round. None of these 3 ever fought before or after there fight with Moore!

Great to see you weighing in! Judo Gene LeBell fought a boxer, but I forget the guys name. He was put up to it by the martial arts community, they sort of "nominated" him lol (thanks guys for the honor). Gene was such a tough SOB that he managed, I think he won the fight actually. TO many this was the first real cross pollination of the "wrestler/grappler versus Boxer."

The problem with this understanding is that Hawaii dating back to the 1920's actually had a lively schedule of Danzen Ryu Jiu Jitsu players, catch as can wrestlers, and boxers fighting regularly! Henry Osaka I believe was the main Danzen teacher. Brazil also had many of these bouts between styles at this time and throughout. So this type fight is more traditional than many might imagine.

[Ray Corso]

"That would be because that wasn't a sanctioned boxing match"........as if Archie gave a damn if it was sanctioned....

Did he get PAID? YES!.

The old timers picked up all the pennies they was available
to them.
Sugar Ray fought Stan Harrington twice at the end of his career loosing to decisions to Stan. Stan was a very tough guy and a contender at different times in his career. He also fought out of Hawaii were both fights took place and Sugarman got all expenses and a nice pay day TWICE.
In Sugarmans top form he beats Stan put at the end an all expenses paid road trip to the island paradise was a great trip TWICE!

When you see the greats fighting some guy who was 7-9-5 in some obscure town their getting paid and the folks in that town get a chance to see an ATG. They may not be in ATG form but they get a chance of see their favorite.

ps Dibiase said some smart azz crap to Archie during promo and Archie told him that he's waltz with him then bounce him. He did!

Ray

[Anthony342]

Great to see you weighing in! Judo Gene LeBell fought a boxer, but I forget the guys name. He was put up to it by the martial arts community, they sort of "nominated" him lol (thanks guys for the honor). Gene was such a tough SOB that he managed, I think he won the fight actually. TO many this was the first real cross pollination of the "wrestler/grappler versus Boxer."

The problem with this understanding is that Hawaii dating back to the 1920's actually had a lively schedule of Danzen Ryu Jiu Jitsu players, catch as can wrestlers, and boxers fighting regularly! Henry Osaka I believe was the main Danzen teacher. Brazil also had many of these bouts between styles at this time and throughout. So this type fight is more traditional than many might imagine.

Great to see Mr. Hascup, a top historian, weigh in indeed.

Here's some background info on that fight you mentioned, Gene Lebell vs. Milo Savage:



And here's Gene himself talking about the fight:

[Anthony342]

If there's one thing boxing and MMA has taught us, it's that all styles need to be respected and acknowledged. Boxers have now seen plenty of examples of the viability of kicks, knees and grappling in a no hold barred fight and MMA fighters the effectiveness of boxing techniques, not only in boxing, but in mixed matches, be them in a ring or cage, which is why the hate on both sides makes no sense to me. It's one thing not to like something, but another to just make up s**t about it. Daniel Moynihan had a great quote "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts", which was even quoted in an episode of Criminal Minds.

[billeau2]

Great to see Mr. Hascup, a top historian, weigh in indeed.

Here's some background info on that fight you mentioned, Gene Lebell vs. Milo Savage:



And here's Gene himself talking about the fight:

Ha!! thats right Milo savage!!! Great find Anthony. LeBell is and always was a true badazz. More bear than mere mortal. Seriously he has within his psyche the largest unabridged selection of wrestling holds. needless to say he is unpretentious and a has always been a first rate martial artist.

[billeau2]

"That would be because that wasn't a sanctioned boxing match"........as if Archie gave a damn if it was sanctioned....

Did he get PAID? YES!.

The old timers picked up all the pennies they was available
to them.
Sugar Ray fought Stan Harrington twice at the end of his career loosing to decisions to Stan. Stan was a very tough guy and a contender at different times in his career. He also fought out of Hawaii were both fights took place and Sugarman got all expenses and a nice pay day TWICE.
In Sugarmans top form he beats Stan put at the end an all expenses paid road trip to the island paradise was a great trip TWICE!

When you see the greats fighting some guy who was 7-9-5 in some obscure town their getting paid and the folks in that town get a chance to see an ATG. They may not be in ATG form but they get a chance of see their favorite.

ps Dibiase said some smart azz crap to Archie during promo and Archie told him that he's waltz with him then bounce him. He did!

Ray

Ray

you bring up a situation I had with my original martial arts teacher. We had an exhibition somewhere and we were walking around to gather the rest of the gang when I noticed Sensei was in his "pajamas" referring here to his Gi. So there he is with his entire Gi, and as was the custom, his belt slung over his inner shoulder. So I asked him "Sensei why are you wearing your Gi out of the Dojang?"

He points to a group of construction workers and asks me to tell him what they are wearing, where upon he says... "So they are wearing hard hats and boots with tool belts because?" I say "they are construction workers?" and he says "what are we?" I play along "martial artists", and he says: "and what uniform do martial artists wear for work?" Point made.

I bring this up because it seems like the old timers were fighters first, they fought for a living, they liked to fight... that was what they identified with and did, like Sensei. If it meant fighting someone who wrestled to get some work in, so be it! A gig was a gig. All this baloney about sanctioning the bouts, etc was beside the point.

Sensei was the same way actually...he used to scare the other so called masters because he was about no crap and while he was polite to a fault, he would fight anyone at the drop of the hat as I witnessed many times lol. Its what he did, it was his occupation and maybe the time would come when someone could teach him something new. I think he had a bit of James Toney in him that way actually. He looked like he was born doing karate.

[Anthony342]

Ha!! thats right Milo savage!!! Great find Anthony. LeBell is and always was a true badazz. More bear than mere mortal. Seriously he has within his psyche the largest unabridged selection of wrestling holds. needless to say he is unpretentious and a has always been a first rate martial artist.

Yeah, not only that, but I believe he even did stunt work in a lot of movies and TV, along with scripted pro wrestling matches. The guy has done it all. And even if you get a patch or button or whatever it is, I'd STILL not let the man choke me unconscious. I'd probably have a heck of a migraine the rest of the day and I already get enough of those. I love it when people that disrespect a certain martial art, be BJJ, judo, boxing or whatever, get beat and learn to respect that fighting style. I'd rather let someone do a lot of other things, like a pretty lady kiss me. There's a classic episode of the TV comedy Sledge Hammer where Lebell plays an archbishop that's targeted by a sniper. This was the first time I had heard of Gene Lebell, since the episode has commentary on the DVD of it. When Hammer goes on stage to shield Lebell, Gene thinks Hammer is attacking him and proceeds to throw and slam him a few times in some nice stunt work on both sides.

[IronDanHamza]

true. but would you be proud of having a zero fight novice included on your record when you are an ATG?

Thats really what I was getting at. Do yoo think Mayweather WANTS to claim it?

A fight is a fight at the end of the day. It's a nothing win but a win on his record none the less.

Like Henry mentioned, Archie Moore has 3 wins over 0-0 professional wrestlers on his record. All sanctioned fights count.

[DreamFighter]

A fight is a fight at the end of the day. It's a nothing win but a win on his record none the less.

Like Henry mentioned, Archie Moore has 3 wins over 0-0 professional wrestlers on his record. All sanctioned fights count.

ok. though this completes the 50-0.

I wonder if floydie felt it was a poetic way of both exceeding and NOT exceeding Rocky, a tribute.