Marciano 49-0 vs. Mayweather 49-0.

[billeau2]

No he's being "crucified" for saying something that ain't true. Simple as that.

"Floyd is heavily criticised by historians"

Like who?

Thats a silly point of contention... what is a professional historian? He can't show you that Dan. There are authors, pundits, columnists, etc... and like Virtually Any fighter at this point in the process, the verdict is not yet in. And Floyd is not persecuted to many, it is a legitimate critiscism that he faced guys that were champions like Baldimore and Gatti were champions.

But thats not the point really, the point is history moves slowly and Anthony, BUndana, Myself, you and every other sumofabatch with two arms and two legs, becomes part of that process for Floyd. Gifted writers will weigh in eventually as well...have faith in the dialectic of history Dan, it is maybe not fair, or unfair in any conventional sense but it does tend to be what we have to work with.

[billeau2]

Pac was legendary yes, but i never felt Floyd needed him on his win sheet just because Bob Arum said so. I could never get why Antonio Margarito was used as a name for Floyd to fight and it flipped into he was afraid of someone who's best legit win was maybe Kermit Cintron???



Having Floyd all time in your top 100 is not debatable. I think having him number 1 is a personal preference but anything past top 20 is disingenuous.




His crucifixion is based on his stance of Floyd and the historians slandering him and his fight choices.

Fact is people bring up Antonio, Paul or Pac to throw his career off as if those were names he necessarily needed.

Antonio was another plodder. I would've loved to see the fight. I know Zab was a fight he took off the strength of agreeing to, but i would've loved to see him fight Zab, Carlos, Oscar, Hatton.....and then instead of retiring, fight the winner of Antonio v Cotto. Lets say instead of him retiring, he faces Shane as Antonio and Cotto fight. Then fights the winner. Maybe instead of a Marquez fight he faces Cotto even though we saw him lose, or maybe even Paul

I doubt he gets much credit either way. It would've always been a he didn't fight this guy or that guy.

I agree with you. Frankly if I am Floyd at the later career junction there is no way I want to get into a bruising fight with a big strong welter. And yes, if he beat Margarito I doubt the substance of the issue would change much.

History just takes time, its really just the way it is lol. In the meantime people contribute to the commentary. I believe very strongly that Ward will be compared to Floyd extensively in about 30 years, among other things.

[IronDanHamza]

Thats a silly point of contention... what is a professional historian? He can't show you that Dan. There are authors, pundits, columnists, etc... and like Virtually Any fighter at this point in the process, the verdict is not yet in. And Floyd is not persecuted to many, it is a legitimate critiscism that he faced guys that were champions like Baldimore and Gatti were champions.

But thats not the point really, the point is history moves slowly and Anthony, BUndana, Myself, you and every other sumofabatch with two arms and two legs, becomes part of that process for Floyd. Gifted writers will weigh in eventually as well...have faith in the dialectic of history Dan, it is maybe not fair, or unfair in any conventional sense but it does tend to be what we have to work with.

If he can't show it then don't say it.

"Heavily criticised by historians" his statement, not mine.

It's garbage. Totally baseless. Don't shoot me for calling out baseless claims.

If It's not baseless, name them. Simple.

[Bundana]

B

that is the process... One needs the patina of history, pigeons turn to eagles... then eagles to pigeons... the dialectic goes through time.

I really believe we need that time to pass to evaluate a fighter like Mayweather.

I absolutely agree with you here!

It can be years, sometimes decades, after his fighting days are over, before a boxer's proper place in history is determined (Ezzard Charles comes to mind).

It would be fun if we knew, what boxing people will think of Mayweather by, say, the end of this century! Will boxers by then be super athletes, so fast and brilliant that Floyd to them will look like nothing?

Or will future "historians" follow the age-old tradition of belittling the present, and whish they had been born 80 years earlier? You know, so they could have witnessed boxing's "Golden Age" firsthand... back when there were REAL boxers like RJJ, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Ward, Lomachenko, etc.

[Schmerzen]

joe louis was 137years old

I won't count the McGregor fight for obvious reasons.

There is some debate over which fighter had the better overall resume.

Mayweather gets heat for picking and choosing opponents who had little to chance to win in recent years, but Floyd supporters always fire back that Marciano had plenty of overmatched and faded opponents as well.

isn't mcgregor vs mayweather the second biggest ppv event ever after pac vs mayweather? we all wanted that fight, why not count it? boxing is entertainment too, fans got what they wanted. btw marciano fought guys with a 0-0 record too.

[billeau2]

I absolutely agree with you here!

It can be years, sometimes decades, after his fighting days are over, before a boxer's proper place in history is determined (Ezzard Charles comes to mind).

It would be fun if we knew, what boxing people will think of Mayweather by, say, the end of this century! Will boxers by then be super athletes, so fast and brilliant that Floyd to them will look like nothing?

Or will future "historians" follow the age-old tradition of belittling the present, and whish they had been born 80 years earlier? You know, so they could have witnessed boxing's "Golden Age" firsthand... back when there were REAL boxers like RJJ, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Ward, Lomachenko, etc.

Lol thats what we will be saying to the grandkids.

[billeau2]

If he can't show it then don't say it.

"Heavily criticised by historians" his statement, not mine.

It's garbage. Totally baseless. Don't shoot me for calling out baseless claims.

If It's not baseless, name them. Simple.

Thats a fair statement. I do think it was simply a semantic convenience and not a comment on the guild of historians per se, but fair enough.

[Schmerzen]

fmj is a master at wearing down his opponents, no matter if prime pac, prime mosley or prime whoever the outcome would have been the same. they r mentally not on his lvl, it's that simple

[Elroy The Great]

Welterweight and the middle divisions in general are just very different than the heavyweight division. if it as not for fighters like Fitz, and The Boston Bull, and the many gifted cruisers and light heavies, there would be little reason to compare the two divisions in terms of talent.

People who tend to look deep into the sport of boxing and know talent would certainly say that a light weight Mayweather was a great fighter. But his attitude non withstanding, a problem Holmes faced/faces as well... I think Mayweather's biggest problem is when he had the Pac fight. I think he needed that fight more than Manny to establish that he was great enough to beat the other great fighter in the proverbial arena.

I don't think one can blame, or not blame Floyd for who he fought per se... but he needed that victory against a fellow great, to be as great as some want him to be. marciano's situation is totally different though, apples to oranges.

no question there were intriguing matches that could have been made. however, people are all too eager to blame all of those fights not happening on may.

and some of the people they claim would beat may is absolutely hysterical (margarito ?!?!?! cotto ?!?!?! kostya ?!?!?!).

imho, rocky ranks highly on the overrated list.

[Anthony342]

Thats a silly point of contention... what is a professional historian? He can't show you that Dan. There are authors, pundits, columnists, etc... and like Virtually Any fighter at this point in the process, the verdict is not yet in. And Floyd is not persecuted to many, it is a legitimate critiscism that he faced guys that were champions like Baldimore and Gatti were champions.

But thats not the point really, the point is history moves slowly and Anthony, BUndana, Myself, you and every other sumofabatch with two arms and two legs, becomes part of that process for Floyd. Gifted writers will weigh in eventually as well...have faith in the dialectic of history Dan, it is maybe not fair, or unfair in any conventional sense but it does tend to be what we have to work with.

In the immortal words of Homer Simpson "See? This guy gets it."