Why do people like Roberto Duran

[The plunger man]

Because he was quicker, more skilled and has a better resume. I go more just by who someone beats and at what point in both their and their opponent's career they beat them and how long they're champion, but also moving up in weight is a hell of an achievement. I personally consider it even better if that boxer becomes lineal or Ring champion in several weight classes, possibly even undisputed, like Pacquiao, Mayweather or Leonard, but still rate someone highly if they stay in one weight class and dominate as well.

Look Anthony I never one time said it's a bad achievement remaining at one weight class...what I said was going up win weight and beating naturally bigger opponents is a step up from that...that's my view...I never one time said hagler was not dominant at his weight....he was a monster and people get this impression that hagler was a come forward fighter who destroyed you....really he was a precision counterpuncher and was at his best when a tony Sibson or juan roldan was charging him....that's my criteria why Leonard and hagler would always have been a close fight because hagler would have to be in the front foot and he wasn't at his best like that....hearns was reckless and he was a warrior and really he met hagler head on and tried to knock him out...forget it marvin was tough as nails and he ate it up like paceman ....styles make fights ...I'm not gonna question that you don't know boxing because I know you do..if stats mattered for me I would rate calzaghe higher tha hagler because he never got beat but I know hagler was on a completely different level to him in terms of competition and all round ability...so no it's not about stats for me...it's just I look at fighter and if he has dominated not just his weight class but even higher then that's an extra mark for me for a fighter....boxing is the only sport I love ...it's in my blood and I boxed for a number of years and could have turned professional ....I was brought up in the early 80's as a young 11 year old....saw Leonard beat hearns in 1981 when I was a young boy...he was the reason why I boxed.....I was gutted when Leonard retired after the Howard fight as it was gonna finally happen the two best fighters finally meeting and I ****in cried when he quit because he got dropped...Worcester Massachusetts I will never forget it.....

[The plunger man]

Yes, but Leonard did come back in 1984, so he still could have fought Hagler then but his pride wouldn't allow it, as he felt embarrassed after being knocked down by Kevin Howard. I don't see why, since he recovered well, it was his first fight back and he ended up winning by TKO. Fight still could have happened sooner. And maybe Leonard still wins, but either way, it would still be pretty close and more respected. Leonard has been quoted as saying Hagler ate at his restaurant and told Leonard he was considering retirement and said that and how Hagler looked in the Mugabi fight was what convinced him to finally fight Hagler. He pulled the same thing twice with Duran, in their second and third fights. Duran later even asked Leonard why he waited 9 years to give him a rematch and he said "because I could", even though Duran gave him one only 5 months after their first fight and Leonard said he wanted a quick rematch with Duran for the second fight, not only to avenge the defeat, but because he knew Duran would struggle to make the weight. Nobody is denying that Leonard was a great fighter, but in the same respect, nobody should also deny the crap he pulled with potential opponents sometimes too. Plus, inviting Hagler to an event only to ultimately say he was retiring rather than fighting Hagler was kind of a **** move too. People rank fighters like Duran and Leonard higher than Hagler because they have better names on their resume and are more skilled, not because they won titles in multiple weight classes compared to Hagler only winning in one division.

you cannot blame Leonard for making Duran gorge himself and become overweight.....no one but Durans management are to blame if they rushed Duran into the quick rematch....there was a rematch clause and Leonard exorcised it...durans management sold Duran short because he reciieved his biggest ever purse of 8 million for the rematch...the first fight was June the 20th ...the rematch was signed first week of September ..they never boxed till 25th of November ..that's over 10 weeks to get ready...no one made Duran accept that date....Durans team took it...and if Duran is champion he has to act with dicpline and behave as a champion and blowing up to 190lbs is Durans fault not Leonard's ....there's an interview in the studio on YouTube of Duran and Leonard with Howard cosell and you judge and see if Duran was out of shape...even Ray arcel said Duran was in shape...check it....that's one of the things that lets Duran down as an ATG ....was his attitude and desire to train and you can't blame Leonard for that...he just used his brain and used it to his advantage...boxing is also psychology ...Ali used that...benny Leonard used it....how old are you Anthony just curious ? ..my view is Duran used the same tactics calling Leonard's wife a puta....being disrespectful and abusive behaviour when at the time things like that were always cordial.. so Duran made Leonard react and go toe2toe and got in his head and Leonard did the same....you can't blame Leonard for making Duran gorge on food and it was Duran who signed for the November fight.....I can dig it out and show it was Durans team that took the bigger payday for the sake of a quicker rematch

[Ray Corso]

I'm not going any further with this BS...if you can't see the difference in body type between Qawi and Hagler there's no reason to talk with you.

Sugar Ray is the greatest ever because he is the most complete fighter, the best balanced as to skills, experience, power and speed. He had all the intangibles too.

Hagler is a top ten middleweight who could fight in any era.
Yoiu make comments about Monroe and Seales and all the middleweights from that era who were all very good fighters. These guys were main event guys who were top fifteen in the division. And top fifteen was the common number used for contenders. 4 through 8 and 9 through 15 were commonly matched.

Hagler's record is a strong one with good competition from the start to the end.

I was the Region 1 (New England) team coach for many years and knew Hagler just before turning pro. Fought many times against the Petronelli's bros gym. Hagler was a very complete fighter with solid skills and a huge heart. He didn't bring big power but he did work in combination and fought hard to wear his opponents down.

There's no reason to diminish a great fighter like Hagler, we just got rid of a few kids who degraded past greats every day here so I have no interest in contributing to another member who prefers negative posts over the positive.

Ray

[joseph5620]

Why is Duran rated higher ton the ATG list on every top boxing pulication then....they both cleaned out there division ..and dominated for a number of years......in fact hagler beat hearns but hearns knocked out Duran...so how is that possible ?

Take away Duran's resume prior to moving up to the higher weight classes and he wouldn't be rated higher on anybody's list.

Leonard beat Duran, Hearns and Benitez at 147. Claiming he needed Kalule for his status and reputation today is beyond ******.

[The plunger man]

Take away Duran's resume prior to moving up to the higher weight classes and he wouldn't be rated higher on anybody's list.

Leonard beat Duran, Hearns and Benitez at 147. Claiming he needed Kalule for his status and reputation today is beyond ******.

leonards legacy is built on beating fighters when the odds were against him...his legacy was further enhanced when he came back after 5 years and beat a naturally bigger more active opponent....same as duran....if there was no palomino,cuevas,leonard,Moore,barley and even hagler then duran legacy would not be so great......it was because he came back redeemed himself and he also did that against fighters who were physically bigger.....if duran had not come back after leonard no mas ...his legacy would have been seriously damaged.....who the ****** one
Greb,walker,Armstrong,robinson,arguello,leonard,du ran,benitez,hearns,chavez,de la hoya,pacquaio,mayweather,Camacho ,Whittaker,Gomez,toney,hopkins,Jones,holyfield and so many more went up in weight and dominated and won in higher divsions...what his Henry Armstrong known for ? First man to win titles 3 world titles at different weights....if he stayed at feather do you think he would be so well known...GTFOH dummy

[The plunger man]

I'm not going any further with this BS...if you can't see the difference in body type between Qawi and Hagler there's no reason to talk with you.

Sugar Ray is the greatest ever because he is the most complete fighter, the best balanced as to skills, experience, power and speed. He had all the intangibles too.

Hagler is a top ten middleweight who could fight in any era.
Yoiu make comments about Monroe and Seales and all the middleweights from that era who were all very good fighters. These guys were main event guys who were top fifteen in the division. And top fifteen was the common number used for contenders. 4 through 8 and 9 through 15 were commonly matched.

Hagler's record is a strong one with good competition from the start to the end.

I was the Region 1 (New England) team coach for many years and knew Hagler just before turning pro. Fought many times against the Petronelli's bros gym. Hagler was a very complete fighter with solid skills and a huge heart. He didn't bring big power but he did work in combination and fought hard to wear his opponents down.

There's no reason to diminish a great fighter like Hagler, we just got rid of a few kids who degraded past greats every day here so I have no interest in contributing to another member who prefers negative posts over the positive.

Ray

U don't have to you wasn't asked into this debate.....secondly you think robinson is the greatest of all time....well I don't agree....different eras cannot be compared....your of the same vein as Bert Randolph sugar who considered the old guard better than the new guard..you talk about balance with robinson..on the same evidence what you have Seen which is video...I say his balance was not superhuman, I'm not gonna get into a debate about Ray robsinosn ...he was amazing for his era but I don't consider him the best ever ..period...there's enough fights out there for a person to judge him and it's personal opinion...secondly you state you was a trainer and yet a fighter when he is naturally stronger nine times out of ten the bigger man beats the little man....and yet you don't consider a guy that is smaller beating a naturally bigger champion even though every thing is against him....u ain't a trainer that's for sure or you wasn't very good..I'm not a boy who has just got into boxing...I grew up in the early 80's watching every fight you can imagine....I can comment on what I consider are the criteria for judging fighters and one is fighting outside there comfort zone or division..hagler never done that once...he was always considered the favourite in his bouts....i never said hagler was not a great champion and he was a power house at the middleweights ...but leonard and duran rate higher because they took challenges they was suppose to lose...leonard with hagler, duran with Moore and Barkley...no one expected leonard to beat hagler and almost every publication and magazine picked hagler....to strong to powerful and naturally to big...and what happened he outboxed him after having one fight in 5 years....Ray if you was coach...you was a bad one lol.....I was not downgrading hagler at all....leonard and duran are better p4p fighters than hagler because they proved over a number of divisions...that's my opinion and don't comment no more on it

[Anthony342]

you cannot blame Leonard for making Duran gorge himself and become overweight.....no one but Durans management are to blame if they rushed Duran into the quick rematch....there was a rematch clause and Leonard exorcised it...durans management sold Duran short because he reciieved his biggest ever purse of 8 million for the rematch...the first fight was June the 20th ...the rematch was signed first week of September ..they never boxed till 25th of November ..that's over 10 weeks to get ready...no one made Duran accept that date....Durans team took it...and if Duran is champion he has to act with dicpline and behave as a champion and blowing up to 190lbs is Durans fault not Leonard's ....there's an interview in the studio on YouTube of Duran and Leonard with Howard cosell and you judge and see if Duran was out of shape...even Ray arcel said Duran was in shape...check it....that's one of the things that lets Duran down as an ATG ....was his attitude and desire to train and you can't blame Leonard for that...he just used his brain and used it to his advantage...boxing is also psychology ...Ali used that...benny Leonard used it....how old are you Anthony just curious ? ..my view is Duran used the same tactics calling Leonard's wife a puta....being disrespectful and abusive behaviour when at the time things like that were always cordial.. so Duran made Leonard react and go toe2toe and got in his head and Leonard did the same....you can't blame Leonard for making Duran gorge on food and it was Duran who signed for the November fight.....I can dig it out and show it was Durans team that took the bigger payday for the sake of a quicker rematch

Okay, then Duran's team should've known better and made sure he was prepared. You said he used it to his advantage. That's my point. I have more respect for fighters that don't use things to their advantage and face their opponents at their best. Leonard's still great, very skilled and one of my favorites, I just like guys like Hagler more and similar guys with a true fighter's mentality. I agree with your rankings of the Fab 4 though. I also didn't like Duran saying what he did. And I'm a few weeks shy of 40.

[The plunger man]

Okay, then Duran's team should've known better and made sure he was prepared. You said he used it to his advantage. That's my point. I have more respect for fighters that don't use things to their advantage and face their opponents at their best. Leonard's still great, very skilled and one of my favorites, I just like guys like Hagler more and similar guys with a true fighter's mentality. I agree with your rankings of the Fab 4 though. I also didn't like Duran saying what he did. And I'm a few weeks shy of 40.

The thing is I grew up all through that era...no era for me comes close to it....styles will always make fights.....if Leonard boxed Duran he would win no matter what the circumstances were...weight or no weight....if Leonard stood toe2toe with Duran...then Duran would win ...so my point each fighter on any given day if they faced each other the end game could be different.....depending on there mindset...and boxing really is a big part mentally...hagler was bread and butter and a fighters fighter....Leonard for all purposes is one of the most skilled fighters to ever step in the ring but at his weight he was also a killer and had a will to win......hagler,Leonard,Duran and hearns were all different characters and each complimented each other ....I'm 44 btw lol

[Ray Corso]

...44 going on 12?................another know it all whose never been in a gym let alone boxed. Good luck with this one, someone try to find the "goober magnet" so they can't be attracted to the place anymore.........


...."different eras cannot be compared". sorry but your wrong!
If you know what your watching you can evaluate skills and compare talent.
If you don't know techniques you can't judge skill levels.
If you've never been taught correctly I don't expect anyone to know how to
evaluate.

Good luck on the forum, you'll need it! ........

Ray

[Mr.MojoRisin']

U don't have to you wasn't asked into this debate.....secondly you think robinson is the greatest of all time....well I don't agree....different eras cannot be compared....your of the same vein as Bert Randolph sugar who considered the old guard better than the new guard..you talk about balance with robinson..on the same evidence what you have Seen which is video...I say his balance was not superhuman, I'm not gonna get into a debate about Ray robsinosn ...he was amazing for his era but I don't consider him the best ever ..period...there's enough fights out there for a person to judge him and it's personal opinion...secondly you state you was a trainer and yet a fighter when he is naturally stronger nine times out of ten the bigger man beats the little man....and yet you don't consider a guy that is smaller beating a naturally bigger champion even though every thing is against him....u ain't a trainer that's for sure or you wasn't very good..I'm not a boy who has just got into boxing...I grew up in the early 80's watching every fight you can imagine....I can comment on what I consider are the criteria for judging fighters and one is fighting outside there comfort zone or division..hagler never done that once...he was always considered the favourite in his bouts....i never said hagler was not a great champion and he was a power house at the middleweights ...but leonard and duran rate higher because they took challenges they was suppose to lose...leonard with hagler, duran with Moore and Barkley...no one expected leonard to beat hagler and almost every publication and magazine picked hagler....to strong to powerful and naturally to big...and what happened he outboxed him after having one fight in 5 years....Ray if you was coach...you was a bad one lol.....I was not downgrading hagler at all....leonard and duran are better p4p fighters than hagler because they proved over a number of divisions...that's my opinion and don't comment no more on it

I'm going to stop you there. Ray has proven that who he is without a doubt. Don't come on here trying to call him out saying he is a fraud. It has been done before. It doesn't end well. Show Ray the respect he has earned in this game or go back to the Non-Stop Boxing section.