Rocky Marciano: Read this before smeone makes you look ****** with the facts!

[Southpaw Stinger]

Again, you have to consider whose shots he was picking off. I've seen his fights with Burns, Ketchel, Jeffries, Flynn, Moran and Willard. Now with all due respect to these fighters of yesteryear, I see very little in their styles and apparent abilities that would require great defensive mastery to avoid their punches. Flynn and Burns in particular look inept while Jeffries shows only a hint of what he may have been in his prime. I fail to see any of Johnson's opponents feint, jab, throw combinations, mix their attack or present angles. To these eyes they attack straight on at a measured pace and more often are content to clinch and wrestle after throwing a couple of shots.

Against these fighters Johnson did demonstrate an ability to avoid getting hit clean punches but seriously, can you see Louis, Ali, Holyfield, Holmes, Walcott, Charles etc...having difficulty avoiding the punches of Johnson's title fight opponents?

Exactly my point. Johnson was good for his time but the sport evolved a lot. Johnson is extremely overated by many and I wouldn't favour him against the likes of Marciano who would LAND a lot of hard shots and hurt Johnson.

[hemichromis]

You can't see Ezzard Charles being a top 20 boxer? You are a fool. He's top ten P4P material, and certainly a top 20 heavyweight.

well he most certainly wouldn't be in my top 20

[butterfly1964]

well he most certainly wouldn't be in my top 20

i think charles is a lock for top 20. he was a good boxer.

[rocco1252]

i'm a moron. no, you and other tyson fanboys are morons when you say that that ear biting piece of **** could beat the likes of ali, liston, or foreman.

and like for example in the foreman vs. marciano thread, rocky'fan kept saying that marciano hits harder than foreman, and we all were trying to convince the misguided fool that his power wasn't in the league of foreman, but he still insisted that marciano was the hardest hitter of all time, even though middleweights like ezzard charles and archie moore were able to stand toe to toe with marciano and slug it out for a number of rounds before being ko'd, and both charles and moore have p4p some of the weakest chins in boxing history.

BUT YET YOU PUT TYSON IN YOUR TOP 5 HEAVY'S OF ALL TIME?!

[RockyMarcianofan00]

i'm a moron. no, you and other tyson fanboys are morons when you say that that ear biting piece of **** could beat the likes of ali, liston, or foreman.

and like for example in the foreman vs. marciano thread, rocky'fan kept saying that marciano hits harder than foreman, and we all were trying to convince the misguided fool that his power wasn't in the league of foreman, but he still insisted that marciano was the hardest hitter of all time, even though middleweights like ezzard charles and archie moore were able to stand toe to toe with marciano and slug it out for a number of rounds before being ko'd, and both charles and moore have p4p some of the weakest chins in boxing history.

i honestly don't remember that but ok it was so long ago that i wouldn't remember. What i do remember saying is that Marciano could beat foreman if he made it past round 5, which is possible.

No middleweight ever went toe-to-toe with Marciano, not Charles nor Moore, did you see any of those fights?
Charles out boxed Marciano but in the end Marciano was doing good enough to get a UD and in the second fight Marciano KO'd Charles.

Moore was basically sticking and moving but after the 4th round Moore was going down hill. Only reason moore lasted as long as he did was because Marciano's training was lacking in his latter days

[RockyMarcianofan00]

i think charles is a lock for top 20. he was a good boxer.

I agree P4P Charles is up there in the top10, overall heavyweights he should be in the top20.

Bert Sugar had him at nine i think in his top10 but just added that.

I think Charles could easily slide in at 15.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Exactly my point. Johnson was good for his time but the sport evolved a lot. Johnson is extremely overated by many and I wouldn't favour him against the likes of Marciano who would LAND a lot of hard shots and hurt Johnson.

My point exactly- only reason Johnsons name is ever brought up is because he was black. As I've said before he was black and back then blacks were thought to be inferior, so when he beat a couple of white bums everybody regarded him as superman. He became even more of a celebrity when he beat a way way over the hill James J. Jefferies. Johnson has the most padded record i've ever seen getting knocked down by middleweights and having trouble against lhw and middleweights. All this being said- Johnson had the advantage considering he was thought to be a giant standing at 6'. He had only a few big names and most of them were very old (ie James J. Jefferies).

Jack Johnson - Good historical figure, decent boxer, not top10 material.

Marciano KO Johnson 9

[rocco1252]

i agree that rocky was better than alot of people give him credit for but i dont think he is as goodas you think

joe louis was way past his prime when he fought marciano and i cant see anyof the others mentioned being in the top 20 or 30 boxers of all time

YOU ARE A FOOL THEN WHO KNOWS NOTHING OF BOXING, IF THATS WHAT YOU THINK. PLEASE JUST TELL ME YOU PUT PATTERSON ON YOUR TOP 20 LIST AND LISTON BECAUSE I WILL LAUGH HYSTERICALLY IF THEY MAKE IT AND CHARLES AND WALCOTT DONT MAKE IT

[butterfly1964]

YOU ARE A FOOL THEN WHO KNOWS NOTHING OF BOXING, IF THATS WHAT YOU THINK. PLEASE JUST TELL ME YOU PUT PATTERSON ON YOUR TOP 20 LIST AND LISTON BECAUSE I WILL LAUGH HYSTERICALLY IF THEY MAKE IT AND CHARLES AND WALCOTT DONT MAKE IT

You are the fool if you think that Charles and Walcott are better than Liston.

[hellfire508]

You are the fool if you think that Charles and Walcott are better than Liston.

Liston was a better heavyweight than Charles and Walcott, hands down. There is no question about it in my opinion. I have Liston at number 8, and Walcott and Charles at 15 and 16 respectively. Charles was a brilliant light-heavyweight, but his achievements there don't count for **** at heavyweight. Otherwise Bob Foster is one of the best heavyweights.

Rocco1252 - Please tell me you don't rank these two higher than Liston? Even Patterson IMHO deserves to be higher. I rank him 14th.