James Toney; Most overrated fighter of the 90's?

[sonnyboyx2]

Ok so if the commentary teams thinks the other guy won then that overrides the judges? Well that ruins your own theory because the commentary team for Toney-McCallum 2 felt McCallum won.

Who gives a damn if Griffin and Thadzi beat Toney in his prime? I do. Those fights show me a lot about Toney.

You have proved nothing. You haven't refuted a thing I've said.

You've tried to ridiculously claim that McCallum 2, Sosa, Nunn and Williams were "dominant" victories when they were no where near it.

And no, Littles, Barkley, Thornton and Washington ain't top level fighters Despite you trying to pass them off as that.

Toney has zero dominant and impressive performances over top level fighters that's why he's overrated.

Barkley was not a Top Level fighter?...

It is pointless argueing the cause with you, because you are using YOURSELF as the judge LOL

The brutal knock outs of 5 dominant world champions (Holyfield, Nunn, Williams, Barkley) & landslide points victory over Jirov... are NOT Dominant in your eyes

Maybe you can explain "What is your idea of dominant" maybe you name me a particular boxing fight which you would call Dominant performance?

Toney vs McCallum (2) MD ... was like Floyd Mayweather v Maidana (1) MD
Floyd Mayweather vs Saul Alvarez MD... would you claim Maidana or Alvarez actually won?

[IronDanHamza]

Duran vs Hagler wasa unanimus decision win for Hagler. I have never claimed it wasn't a unanimus win for Hagler. I have always claimed Hagler won it by the skin of his teeth, by winning the final round when he rallied down the stretch. A Razor Thin decision by 1pt... 144-143 (1pt) 146-145 (1pt) 144-142 (2pt) was the judges scorecards. The judges seen the fight as close as i seen the fight. Unlike yourself who had Hagler winning by a landslide.. Post up your score card and lets all have a real good laugh. Because i can assure you if i posted my score card of that fight, it would be difficult for anyone to disagree.

You have called Judges decisions "A Joke".. You have rubbished every single performance of James Toney's championship career. You have refused point blank to name me another 160lb champion who achieved more than Toney at Heavyweight. You put forward Billy Conn, which is laughable.

No I said two of the judges scorecards for Toney-McCallum were a joke which they were. What's a bigger joke is saying Toney dominated McCallum in the rematch.

I didn't say Hagler-Duran was a landslide at all. I said he won clearly which he did.

I can't think of any other MW champions that went on to got 1-2-1 with Heavyweight contenders. You're asking for something too specific. I also can't name any other 4 weight world champions by the age of 26 other than Adrien Broner. It's meaningless.

I named you a list of fighters who started their career at 160 lbs and went to to do better than Toney did at Heavyweight.

[sonnyboyx2]

although i have watched the fight many times over the years.. Just for you, i have just watched Toney vs McCallum (2) and that is a dominant victory for Toney. Like the judges who only gave McCallum 2rds i actually had him winning 3rds

Watch for yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw7ZMqaA_qQ

[IronDanHamza]

Barkley was not a Top Level fighter?...

It is pointless argueing the cause with you, because you are using YOURSELF as the judge LOL

The brutal knock outs of 5 dominant world champions (Holyfield, Nunn, Williams, Barkley) & landslide points victory over Jirov... are NOT Dominant in your eyes

Maybe you can explain "What is your idea of dominant" maybe you name me a particular boxing fight which you would call Dominant performance?

Toney vs McCallum (2) MD ... was like Floyd Mayweather v Maidana (1) MD
Floyd Mayweather vs Saul Alvarez MD... would you claim Maidana or Alvarez actually won?

No Iran Barkley was not a top level fighter. Decent solid fighter yes not a top guy.

No I'm not using myself as a judge at all. Obviously I'll have my opinion on who won a fight but if a fights close a fights close I can't complain with the result.

Name a dominant performance? Ok, Manny-Pacquaio vs Marco Antonio Barrera, Floyd Mayweather vs Diego Corrales, Bernard Hopkins vs Tito Trinidad, Pernell Whitaker vs Azumah Nelson. Need I go on? I could go on all day listing dominant performances by fighters it's not something out of the ordinary for a fighter to put on a dominant performance.

No against Nunn he was not dominant at all. Nunn was well ahead on the cards at the time of the KO how is that dominant? Was Chavez dominant against Taylor? Was Carl Froch dominant against Jermain Taylor? Was Marquez dominant against Pacquaio in the 4th? Just because you knock a guy out doesn't mean you were dominant against him nor impressive.

That also applys for Williams and Jirov. He wasn't dominant in either. Barkley and Holyfield's fossil aren't top level guys. Been over this 100 times.

I don't understand what your point is for the last part.

Floyd-Maidana was an MD, that was a close fight that could have gone either way. That's an example of one of Floyd's few performances that wasn't a dominant performance.

Floyd-Canelo was an MD and an example of a terrible scorecard from one of the judges and another "joke" as Floyd won that fight in dominant fashion.

Toney-McCallum 2 was a close fight that could have gone either way that you've ridiculously claimed was a "dominant" victory for Toney.

What's your point? Do you not agree with the cards? Because I thought you always agree wth judges cards?

[IronDanHamza]

although i have watched the fight many times over the years.. Just for you, i have just watched Toney vs McCallum (2) and that is a dominant victory for Toney. Like the judges who only gave McCallum 2rds i actually had him winning 3rds

Watch for yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw7ZMqaA_qQ

If you actually honestly believe that Toney-McCallum 2 was a dominant win for James Toney then you are absolutely delusional. There is no other way to look at it.

What are you going to tell me next? That Toney beat Tiberi because the judges scored it for him?

[sonnyboyx2]

[QUOTE=IronDanHamza;16406915]If you actually honestly believe that Toney-McCallum 2 was a dominant win for James Toney then you are absolutely delusional. There is no other way to look at it.

What are you going to tell me next? That Toney beat Tiberi because the judges scored it for him?[/Q

Errrmm Ok James Toney is shyte ffs

[IronDanHamza]

[QUOTE=sonnyboyx2;16406920]

If you actually honestly believe that Toney-McCallum 2 was a dominant win for James Toney then you are absolutely delusional. There is no other way to look at it.

What are you going to tell me next? That Toney beat Tiberi because the judges scored it for him?[/Q

Errrmm Ok James Toney is shyte ffs

Far from it.

He's a first ballot HOF'er so he's far from that.

[sonnyboyx2]

[QUOTE=IronDanHamza;16406925]

Far from it.

He's a first ballot HOF'er so he's far from that.

No, he is shyte, you have convinced me on it. The useless ****er has never beaten a single opponent dominantly. His whole career is a built on lucky decisions from bad judges against shot fighters. many of his wins were lucky wins against tomato cans masquerading as world champions. The fat cvnt doesn't deserve to be in the IBHOF coz he beat no one of worth only tim littles

[IronDanHamza]

[QUOTE=sonnyboyx2;16407046]

No, he is shyte, you have convinced me on it. The useless ****er has never beaten a single opponent dominantly. His whole career is a built on lucky decisions from bad judges against shot fighters. many of his wins were lucky wins against tomato cans masquerading as world champions. The fat cvnt doesn't deserve to be in the IBHOF coz he beat no one of worth only tim littles

Ok well now you're just being childish.

I never said Toney didn't BEAT any top fighters.

He beat Nunn, fair and square. Was it an impressive or dominant performance? No. But it was a great win.

He beat Mike McCallum. I thought he lost but I can't complain with the decison. Was it dominant? Not even close.

He beat Johnson. Again I thought he lost but I can't complain with the decison. But once again far from dominant.

He beat Jirov. Probably his best win. Clear win for Toney in a war.

They're his best "official wins" that he was awarded and a very good list of wins I have never disputed that Toney has good WINS. What I am dis*****g is HOW he beat his opponents and he struggled against every top fighter he faced and has very few CLEAR wins over top opponents and no dominant performances over them. It's that simple.

IMO, his best wins are;

Nunn
Griffin (lost the decison but I felt he won the second one)
Jirov
Williams
Littles

So even though I had him losing to McCallum and Johnson I still admit that he has a good, HOF calibur resume of WINS.

I also have clearly stated multiple times that Toney is a first ballot HOF'er. Just not an ATG IMO

[Scott9945]

Sorry to say so, but yes it does. If you were to look back at posts i have made on this forum, you will see that several times i have said, "I have never seen more than six or so bad judges decisions in my life" and i have over 20,000+ fights.. To give you a few examples:

Fenech vs Nelson (1) i agree it was a draw
Eubank vs Benn (2) i agree it was a draw
Hagler vs Antuofermo (1) i agree it was a draw
Mayweather vs DeLaHoya - Mayweather won for me
Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton (3) - Ali won for me
Delahoya vs Felix Sturm - Oscar won for me

Fights which i call terrible decisions:

Shannon Briggs vs George Foreman
Sven Otke vs Robin Reid

I agree 100% with the judges who judged Hagler vs Duran.

This explains a lot. You might be the worst scorekeeper I've ever seen.

DLH over Sturm? Seriously?