James Toney; Most overrated fighter of the 90's?

[IronDanHamza]

Holyfield losing to Larry Donald is no disgrace. It's how Holyfield lost his fights. Against James Toney he was completely dominated, then knocked out.

Yes McCallum (2) was a dominant victory going by the judges scorecards, with two judges having Toney winning by 7rds... if that is not dominant then i don't know what is.

Your argument is flawed, i have pointed out to you several fights which Toney won (dominant) yet you are twisting it around to suit your agenda...

is 7rds a dominant victory?
Holyfield was a dominant victory..
Barkley was a dominant victory...
Jirov was a dominant victory...
Nunn was a dominant victory...
Adolpho Washington ranked No5 was dominant victory..
Tim Littles ranked No1 was dominant victory...
McCallum 2 & 3 both dominant victories...
Dominick Guinn dominant victory...
John Ruiz dominant victory..
Charles Williams dominant victory
Tony Thornton dominant victory...
Merqui Sosa was a dominant victory...

All the above fights were won by James Toney. A case cannot be made to claim the opponent won..

So now you're talking about performances in regards to Holyfield. So which one is it does performance matter or doesn't it? Because you said winning is all that matters and Larry Donald beat Holyfield in his next fight.

Toney-McCallum 2 was NOT dominant in any way.

You use the (ridiculous) scorecards to claim that as dominant yet when over two fights and 6 scorecards against Montel Griffin a grand total of zero out of 6 of those cards had Toney winning yet you don't value the judges in that instance.

Toney-McCallum 2 being a "dominant" victory is nothing short of absurd. Many, including myself, had McCallum winning that fight. Despite the ridiculous wide cards.

Jirov was not a dominant performance.

Nunn was not a dominant performance

Williams was not a dominant performance

Sosa was not a dominant performance.

Ruiz was a no contest.

To claim these were dominant performances is ridiculous. He struggled in every last one of them. Only one that could be argued is Jirov which was still a back and forth war.

The rest are not top level fighters.

[IronDanHamza]

Haha.. so say's ****ing Paul McKenna.. :blow: just like always, you are completely wrong in all that you put into print...

Holyfield lost to Heavyweight contender and former world title challenger Larry Donald. You obviously would know nothing whatsoever about Larry Donald, in fact you most likely have never heard of Larry Donald. Holyfield then won his next four fights (You claimed he lost his next).. Holyfield then went to Russia were he was outpointed for The WBO World Title. He then fought 7'0'' Nickolay Valuev in Switzerland losing a close decision, with most ringside reporters feeling Holyfield was robbed. Holyfield finished his career in 2011 with KO victories over Frans Botha & Brien Neilson in Denmark. This being 8yrs after his KO loss to James Toney. Holyfields World Title challenges against Ibragamov & Valuev being 5yrs after being KOd by Toney... You have even made claim Holyfield WON those two world title fights???... How can you be taken seriously?.. you have most likely never seen a Holyfield fight in your life... You claim Holyfield was in the worst condition of his life against Toney?... Show proof of your quote!... There is more chance of me dating Madonna than you showing proof.. LOL.. your a cartoon character and your pizzed oft having to read how wrong you are and how Toney dominated Holyfield, like Duran dominated Hagler rds 8,9,10,11,12,13, & 14

Duran lost a razor thin decision to Hagler.. that hurts you. it hurts you deep inside, knowing Hagler struggled to beat a lightweight. It hurts you because Hagler is your hero, you argue repeatedly on the forums that Ray Leonard was beaten by Hagler. LOL... you make claim that Hagler was past it and Leonard chose his moment. But Hagler was only 32yrs old. James Toney was 35yrs old when he knocked **** out of Holyfield. Toney is 47yrs old now and still fighting.

Here is a couple of posts you made on Hagler LOL

1/ "Prime Marvin bounced forward. He did not just bounce a little, he bounced high because he was confident and it was part of his rhythm. When you are in the air you cannot do anything until you come down. After you do, you then have to turn to do anything back to the man who has sidestepped.""

2/ "Hagler was a rough fighter. He was not dirty, he just treated you roughly all the time. His body was made of black marble and the shores of his coastline were hard enough to break a man up."... LOL

After reading those two comments you posted, well i have really upset your stomach LOL


You are the laughing stock of the forum. Nothing you make claim of is ever taken seriously, because you are known as someone who cannot debate boxing, because you have watched no boxing fights. You claimed Hagler won by at least 10rds LOL... You claimed the judges didn't know how to judge a fight LOL.. Your a first class, top of the league cartoon character. You have tried to convince posters here in this thread, that you can "Mind read".. That you have super natural powers, that give you insight into how others think and operate... LOL

How can you possible say that Hagler-Duran was "razor thin" and he "struggled" yet say James Toney beat Mike McCallum in dominant fashion? That is absolutely ludicrous in every single way.

Judges scorecards mean so much to you when it suits you but one judge has Toney-McCallum 2 a draw anyway. All 3 judges had Hagler beating Duran and Hagler beat Duran CLEARLY, by the way.

[IronDanHamza]

The Donald fight was a total route, and almost everyone wrote off Evander after that. That he got two title fights in Russia after that is a tribute to his name value only.

I felt that Rahman beat Toney in their first fight, despite what that heavily biased poster with a taste for fiction says.

Exactly. The Donald fight showed how far gone Holyfield was.

I also had Rahman beating Toney.

[sonnyboyx2]

How can you possible say that Hagler-Duran was "razor thin" and he "struggled" yet say James Toney beat Mike McCallum in dominant fashion? That is absolutely ludicrous in every single way.

Judges scorecards mean so much to you when it suits you but one judge has Toney-McCallum 2 a draw anyway. All 3 judges had Hagler beating Duran and Hagler beat Duran CLEARLY, by the way.

Sorry to say so, but yes it does. If you were to look back at posts i have made on this forum, you will see that several times i have said, "I have never seen more than six or so bad judges decisions in my life" and i have over 20,000+ fights.. To give you a few examples:

Fenech vs Nelson (1) i agree it was a draw
Eubank vs Benn (2) i agree it was a draw
Hagler vs Antuofermo (1) i agree it was a draw
Mayweather vs DeLaHoya - Mayweather won for me
Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton (3) - Ali won for me
Delahoya vs Felix Sturm - Oscar won for me

Fights which i call terrible decisions:

Shannon Briggs vs George Foreman
Sven Otke vs Robin Reid

I agree 100% with the judges who judged Hagler vs Duran.

[IronDanHamza]

Sorry to say so, but yes it does. If you were to look back at posts i have made on this forum, you will see that several times i have said, "I have never seen more than six or so bad judges decisions in my life" and i have over 20,000+ fights.. To give you a few examples:

Fenech vs Nelson (1) i agree it was a draw
Eubank vs Benn (2) i agree it was a draw
Hagler vs Antuofermo (1) i agree it was a draw
Mayweather vs DeLaHoya - Mayweather won for me
Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton (3) - Ali won for me
Delahoya vs Felix Sturm - Oscar won for me

Fights which i call terrible decisions:

Shannon Briggs vs George Foreman
Sven Otke vs Robin Reid

I agree 100% with the judges who judged Hagler vs Duran.

Yet you refuse to adknowledge that James Toney lost to Montel Griffin twice and across 6 scorecards none had him as the winner?

Duran-Hagler was a unanimous decision. Toney-McCallum was a majority decision.

Toney-McCallum 2 was far from dominant you only need two functioning eyes to see that. The two scorecards for that fight were a joke.

[sonnyboyx2]

So now you're talking about performances in regards to Holyfield. So which one is it does performance matter or doesn't it? Because you said winning is all that matters and Larry Donald beat Holyfield in his next fight.

Toney-McCallum 2 was NOT dominant in any way.

You use the (ridiculous) scorecards to claim that as dominant yet when over two fights and 6 scorecards against Montel Griffin a grand total of zero out of 6 of those cards had Toney winning yet you don't value the judges in that instance.

Toney-McCallum 2 being a "dominant" victory is nothing short of absurd. Many, including myself, had McCallum winning that fight. Despite the ridiculous wide cards.

Jirov was not a dominant performance.

Nunn was not a dominant performance

Williams was not a dominant performance

Sosa was not a dominant performance.

Ruiz was a no contest.

To claim these were dominant performances is ridiculous. He struggled in every last one of them. Only one that could be argued is Jirov which was still a back and forth war.

The rest are not top level fighters.

Holyfields performances over the last 8yrs of his career, show he could still fight at a high level.

Larry Donald beat Holyfield by moving. Donald is no slouch, no matter what your opinion of him, he only lost to the very best fighters. Holyfield fought Donald over a year after losing to Toney.

The rest of your post is laughable. You are not a professional boxing judge. You are stating your opinion and completely disregarding and rubbishing the judges score cards. You are the only person i have ever came across who has made the claim: "James Toney is the most overrated fighter of the 90s".. or for that matter, the only person i have ever came across who claims Toney is overrated...

Am i the only person to claim Lennox Lewis is vastly overrated?

[sonnyboyx2]

Yet you refuse to adknowledge that James Toney lost to Montel Griffin twice and across 6 scorecards none had him as the winner?

Duran-Hagler was a unanimous decision. Toney-McCallum was a majority decision.

Toney-McCallum 2 was far from dominant you only need two functioning eyes to see that. The two scorecards for that fight were a joke.

I have already posted you up the video to watch of Griffin vs Toney (1) The HBO commentary team had it as a robbery, with Toney the winner.. But who gives a damn if Griffin won, who cares if Thadzi won or Sam Peter won. You have started a thread claiming "Toney to be the most overrated fighter of the 90s" -- You could not be more wrong and i have shown you to be wrong multiple times.

[IronDanHamza]

Holyfields performances over the last 8yrs of his career, show he could still fight at a high level.

Larry Donald beat Holyfield by moving. Donald is no slouch, no matter what your opinion of him, he only lost to the very best fighters. Holyfield fought Donald over a year after losing to Toney.

The rest of your post is laughable. You are not a professional boxing judge. You are stating your opinion and completely disregarding and rubbishing the judges score cards. You are the only person i have ever came across who has made the claim: "James Toney is the most overrated fighter of the 90s".. or for that matter, the only person i have ever came across who claims Toney is overrated...

Am i the only person to claim Lennox Lewis is vastly overrated?

No it's not laughable. This is laughable; "Toney dominated McCallum in the second fight" that is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen in my entire life. And your basis is because the two of judges had it wide. Which is poor logic aswell.

Toney-Griffin. Two fights. 6 scorecards. Zero out of six scorecards had Toney as the winner. What are your thoughts on that?

Well I've not claimed it with empty words. I've backed up my view. And no I'm not the only one who says Toney is overrated.

[IronDanHamza]

I have already posted you up the video to watch of Griffin vs Toney (1) The HBO commentary team had it as a robbery, with Toney the winner.. But who gives a damn if Griffin won, who cares if Thadzi won or Sam Peter won. You have started a thread claiming "Toney to be the most overrated fighter of the 90s" -- You could not be more wrong and i have shown you to be wrong multiple times.

Ok so if the commentary teams thinks the other guy won then that overrides the judges? Well that ruins your own theory because the commentary team for Toney-McCallum 2 felt McCallum won.

Who gives a damn if Griffin and Thadzi beat Toney in his prime? I do. Those fights show me a lot about Toney.

You have proved nothing. You haven't refuted a thing I've said.

You've tried to ridiculously claim that McCallum 2, Sosa, Nunn and Williams were "dominant" victories when they were no where near it.

And no, Littles, Barkley, Thornton and Washington ain't top level fighters Despite you trying to pass them off as that.

Toney has zero dominant and impressive performances over top level fighters that's why he's overrated.

[sonnyboyx2]

Yet you refuse to adknowledge that James Toney lost to Montel Griffin twice and across 6 scorecards none had him as the winner?

Duran-Hagler was a unanimous decision. Toney-McCallum was a majority decision.

Toney-McCallum 2 was far from dominant you only need two functioning eyes to see that. The two scorecards for that fight were a joke.

Duran vs Hagler wasa unanimus decision win for Hagler. I have never claimed it wasn't a unanimus win for Hagler. I have always claimed Hagler won it by the skin of his teeth, by winning the final round when he rallied down the stretch. A Razor Thin decision by 1pt... 144-143 (1pt) 146-145 (1pt) 144-142 (2pt) was the judges scorecards. The judges seen the fight as close as i seen the fight. Unlike yourself who had Hagler winning by a landslide.. Post up your score card and lets all have a real good laugh. Because i can assure you if i posted my score card of that fight, it would be difficult for anyone to disagree.

You have called Judges decisions "A Joke".. You have rubbished every single performance of James Toney's championship career. You have refused point blank to name me another 160lb champion who achieved more than Toney at Heavyweight. You put forward Billy Conn, which is laughable.