Lennox Lewis: A Career Re-Examined

[sonnyboyx2]

Nov 13: Bowe defeats Holyfield, claims WBC, WBA & IBF titles

Rock Newman:

"I think that there has to be change, and there’s no [better] place to effect that change than from the perch of the heavyweight champion."

When the WBC threatened to strip Bowe if he didn’t negotiate with Lewis within 30 days of winning the crown, The Rock countered,

"I’ll be damned if I’m gonna let Bowe be dictated to by some little fiefdom down in Mexico."

He has indicated that Bowe will relinquish the titles before he will acquiesce to any demands that Team Bowe deems excessive.

--

Nov 13: The Mirage offer Michael Dokes as opponent for February date.

--

Nov 18: Maloney offers $9 million to Bowe for UK contest

--

Nov 25: New York talks held between Rock Newman, Frank Maloney and Dan Duva

Rock Newman made two offers;

1. Lewis guaranteed $3 million, 90-10% split in favour of Bowe.
2. Lewis refuses WBC title, interm contest for $2.5 million then Bowe for $9 million or percentage to be negotiated at later date.

Frank Maloney made one offer;

1. 75-25% split in favour of Bowe.

All offers were rejected by the other party.

Maloney did concede that the second offer was good;

"It's matter of principle. We made a commitment to the WBC. They backed us and we have to honour that agreement."

--

Dec 3: Newman considers Hide

"We are even thinking of fighting Hide next. No-one's really heard of Hide, even in England.

But he's ranked in the top 12 and we are thinking of taking a fight on Superbowl Sunday against a lesser opponent in the top 12. Hide's in that category."

--

Dec 10: Bowe First Defense Opponent Imminent

Rock Newman:

"If I make a deal then Lennox Lewis goes to the back of the line, and chances are slim Bowe would fight him in 1993.

Once I make a commitment I'm not looking at Lennox Lewis."

Newman spoke of a contest in February.

--

Dec 11: Lewis willingly to accept $3 million

Frank Maloney:

"If Lewis insists, we will have to talk again with Bowe's people. The fight will be in April, and we will demand that Bowe has no warmup fight beforehand."

--

Dec 14: Bowe dumps WBC belt

--

Dec 14: WBC elevate Lewis to Champion

--

Dec 18: Bowe signs six-fight-deal

Bowe agreed to the 'flexible' contract that will probably break down into two fights live on HBO cable TV and four on TVKO pay- per-view, Seth Abraham, the president of Time Warner Sports, said.

Abraham said HBO will make efforts to include a contest between Bowe and Britain's Lennox Lewis in the series.

"We're pragmatic, our best strategy is to get both of them under contract and then urge that they fight as soon as possible."

--

Dec 19: Michael Dokes Announced as First Challenger

Bowe guarantee for Dokes contest was $7 million, from which he had to pay Dokes purse, approx. $750,000.

--

Appreciate I have gone over some information already contributed earlier, but is there are information anybody able to insert into that timeline?

Both parties were in discussions with George Foreman prior to him signing to meet Pierre Coetzer - that information may be of use.

What is interesting about this post is the dates. Lewis team knew of the 30 day deadline. They knew when that deadline would be reached. They knew through their negotiations, which had failed. Due to them "Pricing themselves Out".. They knew Bowe was going to dump the belt in front of TV crews.. So they made a belated offer of acceptance. Lewis entire career is easy to see through.

[Scott9945]

Your beaten. You have nothing to add to this thread and never have been able to add anything to this thread. I for one am pleased to see the back of you, because your only purpose on this forum is to name-call. You have done it for years you horrible little midget. You cannot accept that i put up an "incredible defence for what i claim about the career of Lewis" - facts, links, evidence, has all been provided by me. Whereas you, Benny, Joeyzagz, Billeau2, Joseph have not posted a single ounce of information to back up your agenda. You have not once been able to disprove the information i have posted. Your only response has been name calling, ridicule, slander and lies... Your a bunch of hypocrites, who don't have the faintest idea of any boxing history. The majority of you are still in your teenage years. I have burst your bubble and you know it kok zuka.

Post #104 in this thread! I just can't keep up with that. Your Lennox Lewis obsession will not be halted. Your a vile rotten toothed mother ****er and I'll be exposing you from time to time in other threads. But when it comes to Lennox Lewis I can never match you in volume. I'm too distracted by real life.

[sonnyboyx2]

You can tell an ex-fighter is punch drunk the same way you can tell if a normal person is regular drunk. But when the answer suits your agenda that gets overlooked, of course.

You are a pathological liar and the worst piece of crap to ever post here. Benny has done such a brilliant job of owning you I didn't feel compelled to play the same tired game with you. Anyone who doesn't see through you is either very new here, or just plain dumb.

And I'm going to apologize to Joeandthebums here because he is making a sincere effort to make this a quality thread. I am going to try and avoid posting on this thread anymore so I don't drag it down. Because everyone knows that Sonnyboy's entire purpose here is to fight with other posters and he'll never, ever stop.

What has being "Punch-Drunk" got to do with anything?.. What has having dementia got to do with anything?.. Does being punch-drunk, mean you tell lies?... Does slurring your speach mean that person tells lies?... Does being punch-drunk or slurring ones speach, mean that person has no recognition of past events ?....

Once again, Your only response to positive evidence is name calling. Just how pathetic can you get. Riddick Bowe took part in negotiations, he was there and was part of what was happening. He was the boxer in question. He is the person "We need to speak too" about the series of events that occured in late 1992. So that we can find out, how those series of events unfolded...

Yet we have Riddick Bowe here on video, telling how those series of events unfolded. But the goons who infest this forum, who were not even alive in 1992. repliy with. "He is punch-drunk, got dementia and is telling lies"..

We are hearing it, " straight from the horses mouth." What more could we possibly ask for on the matter.

Riddick Bowe ducking Lennox Lewis is a British Thing.. We like to think that is what happened. We want to believe that is what happened. We do not want to believe or accept that there was some 30 day deadline. We do not want to hear about Bowe claiming, "Lewis dragged his feet past the deadline".. We only want to believe Lennox Lewis.. We seen Bowe "Dump that belt" saying, "Up You" to the WBC. and "If Lennox wants this belt, he will have to pick it out of the garbage can"..Which in our eyes makes Bowe afraid of Lewis..

But we were not there and Riddick Bowe was there. How can a corrupt organisation from Mexico City, tell the Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World. "You have 30 days to agree a fight with our man" or be stripped of our belt..Riddick Bowe and his team were correct in what they did, dumping that corrupt organisations belt.

I am certain Bowe vs Lewis would have been made in 1993. Riddick Bowe wanted it. Eddie Futch wanted it. But Lennox Lewis never wanted it. Just like he never wanted it in 1995.

[Anthony342]

Nov 13: Bowe defeats Holyfield, claims WBC, WBA & IBF titles

Rock Newman:

"I think that there has to be change, and there’s no [better] place to effect that change than from the perch of the heavyweight champion."

When the WBC threatened to strip Bowe if he didn’t negotiate with Lewis within 30 days of winning the crown, The Rock countered,

"I’ll be damned if I’m gonna let Bowe be dictated to by some little fiefdom down in Mexico."

He has indicated that Bowe will relinquish the titles before he will acquiesce to any demands that Team Bowe deems excessive.

--

Nov 13: The Mirage offer Michael Dokes as opponent for February date.

--

Nov 18: Maloney offers $9 million to Bowe for UK contest

--

Nov 25: New York talks held between Rock Newman, Frank Maloney and Dan Duva

Rock Newman made two offers;

1. Lewis guaranteed $3 million, 90-10% split in favour of Bowe.
2. Lewis refuses WBC title, interm contest for $2.5 million then Bowe for $9 million or percentage to be negotiated at later date.

Frank Maloney made one offer;

1. 75-25% split in favour of Bowe.

All offers were rejected by the other party.

Maloney did concede that the second offer was good;

"It's matter of principle. We made a commitment to the WBC. They backed us and we have to honour that agreement."

--

Dec 3: Newman considers Hide

"We are even thinking of fighting Hide next. No-one's really heard of Hide, even in England.

But he's ranked in the top 12 and we are thinking of taking a fight on Superbowl Sunday against a lesser opponent in the top 12. Hide's in that category."

--

Dec 10: Bowe First Defense Opponent Imminent

Rock Newman:

"If I make a deal then Lennox Lewis goes to the back of the line, and chances are slim Bowe would fight him in 1993.

Once I make a commitment I'm not looking at Lennox Lewis."

Newman spoke of a contest in February.

--

Dec 11: Lewis willingly to accept $3 million

Frank Maloney:

"If Lewis insists, we will have to talk again with Bowe's people. The fight will be in April, and we will demand that Bowe has no warmup fight beforehand."

--

Dec 14: Bowe dumps WBC belt

--

Dec 14: WBC elevate Lewis to Champion

--

Dec 18: Bowe signs six-fight-deal

Bowe agreed to the 'flexible' contract that will probably break down into two fights live on HBO cable TV and four on TVKO pay- per-view, Seth Abraham, the president of Time Warner Sports, said.

Abraham said HBO will make efforts to include a contest between Bowe and Britain's Lennox Lewis in the series.

"We're pragmatic, our best strategy is to get both of them under contract and then urge that they fight as soon as possible."

--

Dec 19: Michael Dokes Announced as First Challenger

Bowe guarantee for Dokes contest was $7 million, from which he had to pay Dokes purse, approx. $750,000.

--

Appreciate I have gone over some information already contributed earlier, but is there are information anybody able to insert into that timeline?

Both parties were in discussions with George Foreman prior to him signing to meet Pierre Coetzer - that information may be of use.

So basically Lewis was the mandatory WBC challenger, Rock Newman refused to even negotiate that fight at first, Lewis was willing to accept $3 million and Newman and Bowe opted to be stripped and fight Michael Dokes eventually instead. How about that? Someone makes a claim and backs it up with actual evidence. What a radical concept! That's just crazy enough to work here.

[Anthony342]

Speaking of claims, didn't Sonny claim earlier in this thread that he was going to delete his account here?

[joeandthebums]

]And I'm going to apologize to Joeandthebums here because he is making a sincere effort to make this a quality thread. I am going to try and avoid posting on this thread anymore so I don't drag it down.

No need for apologies, please feel free to continue posting.

What is interesting about this post is the dates. Lewis team knew of the 30 day deadline. They knew when that deadline would be reached.

The official deadline the WBC had installed was January 2nd.

At that stage the contest would go out for purse bids.

The promoter bidding the most money would earn the right to stage a Bowe-Lewis fight.

The boxers would have had until January 11th to agree to terms of the purse bid.

So despite the WBC's posturing, I do not personally believe that they would of stripped Bowe of the title.

They knew through their negotiations, which had failed. Due to them "Pricing themselves Out"..

I think we will never be privy to the exact specifications of the true negotiations, however we can look to those contests that immediately proceeded it to get an idea of a "fair" deal.

For the Holyfield-Bowe title contest, champion Holyfield was guaranteed $5 million, challenger Bowe $3 million.

They also negotiated percentages of the PPV, which with 900,000 buys totaled gross profit of approx. $35 million.

Holyfield end was approx. $17 million, Bowe $5 million.

We can equate that to approx 50% Holyfield and 15% Bowe of the gross.

If we split that 65% between the two, then approx; Holyfield 75%, Bowe 25%.

--

If established champion Holyfield offered, I believe at the time, mandated championship split of 75-25% - it is difficult on the surface to understand the Bowe camp offer of 90-10%.

--

Of course the more information we have the better we may be able to understand it.

[billeau2]

Speaking of claims, didn't Sonny claim earlier in this thread that he was going to delete his account here?

We should be so lucky

[billeau2]

So basically Lewis was the mandatory WBC challenger, Rock Newman refused to even negotiate that fight at first, Lewis was willing to accept $3 million and Newman and Bowe opted to be stripped and fight Michael Dokes eventually instead. How about that? Someone makes a claim and backs it up with actual evidence. What a radical concept! That's just crazy enough to work here.

Yes. And interestingly enough there waas little question of this situation when it was developing. Most boxing people felt that Bowe via Newman, was avoiding Lewis. Sometimes the media creates distortions, but there is no reason to think so in this case.

When we think of motivations some interesting things come up: first off the relationship between Bowe and Tyson is interesting. One got the sense there was a "hands off" there, neither guy wanted a piece of the other...and this is despite any logistics which may, or may not, have been a factor. Bowe had a tendency, as explicated in the Vitalie/Bowe comparison thread, to avoid certain guys. One could say diplomatically that Rock and Bowe were a team who were particular about whom they challenged.

Lewis on the other hand had a history of challenging himself...looking to find Tyson as an ammy, revenging his losses when they occurred, fighting stronger opposition that the fans demanded rather than fight a weak manditory for alphabet soup. The only gimme in this respect was the Tyson fight for Lewis. if one looks at when he fought Golata, Tua, shannon Briggs, etc...it was when fans were saying these guys were dangerous.

One could well conclude that motivations were such that it is unlikely Lewis would duck anyone. Bowe seemed a bit more complex and one could conclude that there were various reasons some fights were avoided with Bowe. I rememer Bowe once stating that he felt most comfortble fighting Holyfield because the fights were no nonsense, exciting affairs. Bowe may have had a temperment issue that made him avoid certain opponents.

[billeau2]

What has being "Punch-Drunk" got to do with anything?.. What has having dementia got to do with anything?.. Does being punch-drunk, mean you tell lies?... Does slurring your speach mean that person tells lies?... Does being punch-drunk or slurring ones speach, mean that person has no recognition of past events ?....

Once again, Your only response to positive evidence is name calling. Just how pathetic can you get. Riddick Bowe took part in negotiations, he was there and was part of what was happening. He was the boxer in question. He is the person "We need to speak too" about the series of events that occured in late 1992. So that we can find out, how those series of events unfolded...

Yet we have Riddick Bowe here on video, telling how those series of events unfolded. But the goons who infest this forum, who were not even alive in 1992. repliy with. "He is punch-drunk, got dementia and is telling lies"..

We are hearing it, " straight from the horses mouth." What more could we possibly ask for on the matter.

Riddick Bowe ducking Lennox Lewis is a British Thing.. We like to think that is what happened. We want to believe that is what happened. We do not want to believe or accept that there was some 30 day deadline. We do not want to hear about Bowe claiming, "Lewis dragged his feet past the deadline".. We only want to believe Lennox Lewis.. We seen Bowe "Dump that belt" saying, "Up You" to the WBC. and "If Lennox wants this belt, he will have to pick it out of the garbage can"..Which in our eyes makes Bowe afraid of Lewis..

But we were not there and Riddick Bowe was there. How can a corrupt organisation from Mexico City, tell the Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World. "You have 30 days to agree a fight with our man" or be stripped of our belt..Riddick Bowe and his team were correct in what they did, dumping that corrupt organisations belt.

I am certain Bowe vs Lewis would have been made in 1993. Riddick Bowe wanted it. Eddie Futch wanted it. But Lennox Lewis never wanted it. Just like he never wanted it in 1995.

You have constantly been given an opportunity to try to support your position. I am a firm believer in this process of letting sunlight disinfect...and your ideas have been brought out and exposed to the light.

Your very own witness contradicts you...thats a problem. Every narrative of the activity contradicts you.

you have produced no credible sources.

When pushed so FAR you have backpeddled...so now we have Bowe the moralist who will not be told what to do, well Sony at first it was how lewis was ducking Bowe! Nobody really is arguing that perhaps Bowe and Newman wanted to expose corruption...YOUR argument was that Lewis was avoiding Bowe.

And may of us were around...

There are actually people arguing that the Earth is Flat....and their arguments make more sense than yours do!!!! I happen to disagree with them for the record, but at times they make an interesting challenge...you do not. You are wrong. You will not accept this and are a nuisance. its really that simple.

[sonnyboyx2]

You have constantly been given an opportunity to try to support your position. I am a firm believer in this process of letting sunlight disinfect...and your ideas have been brought out and exposed to the light.

Your very own witness contradicts you...thats a problem. Every narrative of the activity contradicts you.

you have produced no credible sources.

When pushed so FAR you have backpeddled...so now we have Bowe the moralist who will not be told what to do, well Sony at first it was how lewis was ducking Bowe! Nobody really is arguing that perhaps Bowe and Newman wanted to expose corruption...YOUR argument was that Lewis was avoiding Bowe.

And may of us were around...

There are actually people arguing that the Earth is Flat....and their arguments make more sense than yours do!!!! I happen to disagree with them for the record, but at times they make an interesting challenge...you do not. You are wrong. You will not accept this and are a nuisance. its really that simple.

i stopped reading this a couple of words into the second paragraph... I produced lots of evidence.. were is your evidence.

Here look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo

Post your evidence below