Why have modern fighters not evolved to be better than SRR

[them_apples]

Just because you despise modern boxers, doesn't mean Canelo carried GGG - or Mayweather carried Pacquiao!


A carry-job is when someone like Canzenori refused to humiliate fellow-ATG Dundee... who at the time was coming to the close of a long career:
BoxRec: Event​


A "work" is when BOTH boxers refuse to do any fighting, and try to carry EACH OTHER.
Like Mickey Walker vs Jimmy Jones:
BoxRec: Event​

Or Paul Berlenbach vs Tony Marullo:
BoxRec: Event​

Or Harry Wills vs Sam McVea:
BoxRec: Event​

Or Maxie Rosenbloom vs Jim Braddock:
BoxRec: Event

Or Young Stribling vs Leo Deibel:
BoxRec: Event

Or Joe Dundee vs Pinky Mitchell​:
BoxRec: Event​


... and hundreds of fights like those, between lesser known journeymen, who tried to survive the hard times by helping each other.


Why is it unfair of me, when I question your opinions? If I told everybody here, that oldtimers had weaker chins that today's boxers, and also were softies who gave up too quickly, when faced with adversity... would you not question, where on earth I get that from? Would you not want to see at least SOME KIND of evidence, that could back up such a statement? I would find it strange, if you wouldn't!

But apparently you feel you should be able to come on here, and post whatever weirdness you can dream up in your fantasy, in order to denigrate modern boxers - and not have anyone question your opinions. I don't think so!

Never mentioned carrying. And thats not what I meant. I meant both fighters were content to not get hurt or take risks trying to pull off a victory. I don’t blame them as individuals. Taking a brutal beating even in victory can cause permanent damage.

ggg and canelo 3 = sparring, if that

0 marks on eachothers faces and these were high profile matches.

Nothing to do with carrying

but once again, I’m not even accusing them of doing that! I used it as an example to show you modern day equivalents of what you claimed older fighters did!

for the record, I constantly post supporting evidence and reasons for my “opinions”. Not sure why you keep beating on a dead horse.

[QueensburyRules]

I think the winner took the bigger cut. I'm not versed in this area, but I gotta believe it probably went down like the opening scene from Rocky, when he fights Spider Rico. The promoter comes in to give him his winnings and takes a cut for this, a cut for that.

- - No doubt U was wide eyed, slack jawed, drooling in wonder at runt Stallone taking on big boys and knocking them out.

When I finally watched Rocky 1-5 with wife out of town and me with the whole afternoon and evening free with fridge bursting, my gut was sore the next day from all the guffawing. Top 5 fun memories ever.

Burgis carried that camp comedy and set up Stallone brilliantly. Shame he passed when he did, but The Penquin went out in style, he did!

[JAB5239]

I can't speak to how well Stallone knew the ins and outs of the game but the concept of a winner's share opens the door to two possibilities.

Does it confirm that there was a problem with no/little effort fights; that there were too many noncombative fights so promoters used the concept of a winner's share to try and force more action into the fights?

Or does the existence of a winner's share suggest to us that fighters carrying eachother or putting in a half effort was unlikely?

Definitely something to ponder and research.

[JAB5239]

- - No doubt U was wide eyed, slack jawed, drooling in wonder at runt Stallone taking on big boys and knocking them out.

When I finally watched Rocky 1-5 with wife out of town and me with the whole afternoon and evening free with fridge bursting, my gut was sore the next day from all the guffawing. Top 5 fun memories ever.

Burgis carried that camp comedy and set up Stallone brilliantly. Shame he passed when he did, but The Penquin went out in style, he did!

Yes, I absolutely was. Just like many boxers and boxing enthusiasts such as John Scully and Vinny Pazienza to name just two. I was 8 years old and went to see ot with my father. I remember being g so excited I wanted to drink raw eggs when we got home. He said sure and cracked two into a glass for me. Without hesitation I grabbed the glass and drank them both down. Just as quickly my stomach rejected the idea and they came back up in the kitchen sink, yolks still intact. This was always a great conversation piece years later at family functions after I had started fighting and one neither my mother or father let me forget about.

[Bundana]

Never mentioned carrying. And thats not what I meant. I meant both fighters were content to not get hurt or take risks trying to pull off a victory. I don���¢��������t blame them as individuals. Taking a brutal beating even in victory can cause permanent damage.

ggg and canelo 3 = sparring, if that

0 marks on eachothers faces and these were high profile matches.

Nothing to do with carrying

but once again, I�m not even accusing them of doing that! I used it as an example to show you modern day equivalents of what you claimed older fighters did!

for the record, I constantly post supporting evidence and reasons for my pinions. Not sure why you keep beating on a dead horse.

But that's just the thing - you don't!

When you claim most modern boxers have glass chins, you don't back this up with any evidence - because, obviously, none exists!

Or when you claim modern boxers lack the oldtime skills necessary to set opponents up for the finisher... again, nothing can possibly back this up!

And how about padwork producing modern boxers, who pull their punches? Again, just another silly idea you throw out there.


It seems to me, that you are using anything and everything you can dream of, in an attempt to bring down modern boxers. Most of which isn't verifiable... or even close to common sense!

Your excuse is that... well, it's all just opinions, and we can't really prove anything. Which apparently means, that you think you should be allowed to post whatever you like here - without facing too much scrutiny!

[Nash out]

- - No doubt U was wide eyed, slack jawed, drooling in wonder at runt Stallone taking on big boys and knocking them out.

When I finally watched Rocky 1-5 with wife out of town and me with the whole afternoon and evening free with fridge bursting, my gut was sore the next day from all the guffawing. Top 5 fun memories ever.

Burgis carried that camp comedy and set up Stallone brilliantly. Shame he passed when he did, but The Penquin went out in style, he did!

Rocky Balboa was a helluva fighter. Great that he was able to blend his boxing career/life into a movie as well for extra entertainment. Nash out

[QueensburyRules]

Yes, I absolutely was. Just like many boxers and boxing enthusiasts such as John Scully and Vinny Pazienza to name just two. I was 8 years old and went to see ot with my father. I remember being g so excited I wanted to drink raw eggs when we got home. He said sure and cracked two into a glass for me. Without hesitation I grabbed the glass and drank them both down. Just as quickly my stomach rejected the idea and they came back up in the kitchen sink, yolks still intact. This was always a great conversation piece years later at family functions after I had started fighting and one neither my mother or father let me forget about.

- - Top story, Jab. Maybe a sign of things to come?

[QueensburyRules]

0 marks on eachothers faces and these were high profile matches.

- - Y U bring up Ali vs Rudi Lubbers and Jimmy Young?

[billeau2]

Rocky Balboa was a helluva fighter. Great that he was able to blend his boxing career/life into a movie as well for extra entertainment. Nash out

True Story:

Shavers was working with Stalone and he wanted just a taste... so to speak, of the Acorn. Ernie was a very humble guy and begged off until eventually he agreed...Just a taste of the power. Ernie, carefully hit Stalone and still put him in a world of pain and suffering. I believe he even had to go to the hospital.

I always admired both men for that incident. I can emphasize with both of them, and I know Rocky would not have had it any other way.

[them_apples]

But that's just the thing - you don't!

When you claim most modern boxers have glass chins, you don't back this up with any evidence - because, obviously, none exists!

Or when you claim modern boxers lack the oldtime skills necessary to set opponents up for the finisher... again, nothing can possibly back this up!

And how about padwork producing modern boxers, who pull their punches? Again, just another silly idea you throw out there.


It seems to me, that you are using anything and everything you can dream of, in an attempt to bring down modern boxers. Most of which isn't verifiable... or even close to common sense!

Your excuse is that... well, it's all just opinions, and we can't really prove anything. Which apparently means, that you think you should be allowed to post whatever you like here - without facing too much scrutiny!

Well if you are going to take that stance, you haven’t proved a lick either. Why are we even debating? Whats the use of our supporting evidence if it will never prove anything? For the record this is something I am aware of. We can’t prove these things. But somewhere in-between we can debate them and ponder.

we had a massive thread on the chin idea, tons of ideas / supporting evidence was provided. Non of it is absolute proof. Absolutes shouldn’t even be on the menu. I really don’t understand why this bothers you.

I don’t just say old fighters had tougher chins.

I said they have tougher chins because:

”the ranks in pro boxing were filled with tougher chinned individuals, as the nature of the sport would only except this type. In fact Haglers coach (Not sure which p brother) said specifically that no matter how talented a fighter was, if he found out he was packing glass they would suggest you hang them up.”

Ok, so its one small snippet of info. Among many, just an example. I evens stated why the ranks would be full of tougher chinned fighters. You HAD to fight. I don’t even need to dig up the 1000s of references that would imply the fight game in the 30s and 40s EXPECTED a fight. And if you didn’t fight you didn’t even get paid sometimes.

how is it you claim I never give any supporting evidence. Are you still stuck on the idea that you THINK I implied they evolved with better chins? I never said that so you can let that one rest.

boxers having better chins back in the day is the same concept of basketball players getting taller. They didn’t grow taller, all the 7 fters are funneled into basketball now!