Top 10 p4p hardest hitters of all time?

[IronDanHamza]

McClellan was hit with numerous big hooks from Benn for a number of rounds, one punch knockouts are not the most common case of where severe damage is caused to the fighter, it is usually the taking of numerous punches round after round. I'd say this was your average case.

There is certainly a possibility that McClellan was more susceptible going in but to discount the damage that Benn was causing seems a bit strange. Clearly the proximate cause of McClellan's bleeding of the brain was the guy who had been punching his head for 10 rounds immedietely before the bleeding.



A boxer having headaches after a fight is pretty standard.

Where have I discounted it? Obviously Benns punches were what triggered it.

My point is the triggering would have happened regardless. And Benn's punching power isn't what caused it or the tragedy isn't a basis for why Benn is a hard puncher.

How is it an average case? How many tragedies in the sport have been a situation where a fighter suddenly takes a knee whilst showing clear signs an issues linked to the brain for rounds prior?

[IronDanHamza]

To be fair Watson wasn't knocked out by Eubank. He was dropped by a savage uppercut which to most was the blow that caused the damage. He clearly wasn't coherent at the start of the following round (wouldn't even meet in the middle of the ring to touch gloves). The ref stepped in after a volley of blows whilst Watson was still on his feet.

But to be fair any serious blow can cause a brain bleed, whether it be a knockout blow or earlier on in a contest. I'd go so far as to wager that in McClellan's case the damage had been done prior to round six because that was the first round that I noticed the errant blinking.....even had Gerald knocked out Benn (as he nearly did in round 8), I think he'd have still suffered a similar fate.

Right. But Watson was stopped on his feet with punches though. McClellean wasn't so that's the difference.

I think he'd have suffered a similar fate regardless.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

no way you can have valero,, just not enough top level fights, same reason i wouldnt put on ike ibeabuchi

[Humean]

The whole point is that opposition comes into play, funny how you use this as a distinction now when you scoffed at the idea in your previous posts. Also what difference does having seven world title fights? It rarely indicates the quality or chin of opposition, nor does it hold anything over non-title fights.



They had to prove it, if anyone had called them some of the greatest punchers of all time after their first 10 fights they would be laughed at and rightly so, some random prospect that had knocked out a bunch of bums might be one of the greatest punchers ever right now, it doesnt mean someone should mention them in this thread based on the possibility rather having them proved it. What's to stop the guys I have mentioned from being all time great punchers, other than the fact that they haven't proved it.



To be considered one of the biggest punchers in history you need to prove it, a sparring partner saying he punched hard doesn't mean he is an ATG puncher at all.



It's very easy to find and it's very well known, you either haven't looked or you are pretending you haven't seen it.

My scoffing was with the idea that Valero was only knocking out bums or guys with weak chins and that it was somehow easy to be knocking these guys out anyway, as if it is common for a fighter to be knocking guys out in the first round so routinely. The bottom line is did Valero have great power? The answer to that is clearly yes. Who did he need to knock out to convince you? I mean it is absurd to think Valero wasn't a great puncher.

To your last point, it is not easy to find and you and others have repeated the claim but none of you have provided evidence. Surely the onus is on you to prove your claim? As it happens I have looked for a source and haven't found anything other than others making those claims without any evidence. If it is so very easy to find you could post the link here couldn't you?

I think saying Valero is one of the hardest punchers ever has very little basis.

Surely you have to hurt someone with a good chin before being in this discussion?

The most durable person Valero hurt was DeMarco and it's not even as if he blasted him out either.

So you think every fighter Valero knocked out must have had a weak chin? Valero was really a lucky boy getting matched 27 times with 27 opponents with glass jaws including 7 world title fights with 7 world ranked opponents who just happened to have weak chins. It is almost beyond parody.

[Humean]

Where have I discounted it? Obviously Benns punches were what triggered it.

My point is the triggering would have happened regardless. And Benn's punching power isn't what caused it or the tragedy isn't a basis for why Benn is a hard puncher.

How is it an average case? How many tragedies in the sport have been a situation where a fighter suddenly takes a knee whilst showing clear signs an issues linked to the brain for rounds prior?

Why would it have happened regardless? There doesn't seem to be any evidence that there was anything wrong with his brain going into the fight. It clearly was Benn's punching power that caused it, Benn was a very big puncher who punched McClellan in the hit many many times for 10 rounds.

It is an average case of a fighter getting punched in the head many times over a sustained period of time until they can no longer cope with it. The only difference in this fight was the fighters corner and the referee didn't seem to show any awareness of McClellan's condition as the fight wore on and that precipitated the fighter to have to quit himself mid round. There is no significant difference in what went on in this fight that what happened with Abdusalamov. In both cases the brain will have started to bleed at some point during the fight.

[Humean]

no way you can have valero,, just not enough top level fights, same reason i wouldnt put on ike ibeabuchi

I wasn't listing him in my top 10 because I wasn't doing a top 10 but he was undoubtedly one of the hardest hitting super-featherweight/lightweights of all time.

[Sugarj]

Right. But Watson was stopped on his feet with punches though. McClellean wasn't so that's the difference.

I think he'd have suffered a similar fate regardless.

I suppose that no two brain bleeds are the same, different areas of the brain, different levels of severity.......different times in the contest.

In some cases the knockout blow causes the issue, whereas in others a slower bleed might not reveal the full extent of the dangers for some time.

its a shame we don't have a neurosurgeon on the forum to comment. I do remember the doctor who opperated on gerald mcclellan commenting being very critical of the dangers of boxing......and the subsequent state of mcclellan's brain after the fight.

[IronDanHamza]

So you think every fighter Valero knocked out must have had a weak chin? Valero was really a lucky boy getting matched 27 times with 27 opponents with glass jaws including 7 world title fights with 7 world ranked opponents who just happened to have weak chins. It is almost beyond parody.

What relevance does them being "World title fights" have? Were all world class opponents?

Not all 7 were "World ranked" either. Most of them actually weren't.

Where have I said they all have weak chins? I've not said that.

What I have said, is Valero never fought anyone with a good chin. Who did he fight with a good chin? Tell me.

The only thing that's parody here is claiming Valero is one the discussion to be one of the hardest punchers of all time. That is parody.

[IronDanHamza]

My scoffing was with the idea that Valero was only knocking out bums or guys with weak chins and that it was somehow easy to be knocking these guys out anyway, as if it is common for a fighter to be knocking guys out in the first round so routinely. The bottom line is did Valero have great power? The answer to that is clearly yes. Who did he need to knock out to convince you? I mean it is absurd to think Valero wasn't a great puncher.

To your last point, it is not easy to find and you and others have repeated the claim but none of you have provided evidence. Surely the onus is on you to prove your claim? As it happens I have looked for a source and haven't found anything other than others making those claims without any evidence. If it is so very easy to find you could post the link here couldn't you?



So you think every fighter Valero knocked out must have had a weak chin? Valero was really a lucky boy getting matched 27 times with 27 opponents with glass jaws including 7 world title fights with 7 world ranked opponents who just happened to have weak chins. It is almost beyond parody.

It's absurd to think he was a great puncher.

He didn't show he was a "great" puncher.

Surely you have to hurt someone with a good chin to be a great pucher.

Is Adrien Broner a great puncher? His KO Ratio was pretty big especially at 130-135 and he stopped DeMarco quicker and more impressively.

[joseph5620]

It's absurd to think he was a great puncher.

He didn't show he was a "great" puncher.

Surely you have to hurt someone with a good chin to be a great pucher.

Is Adrien Broner a great puncher? His KO Ratio was pretty big especially at 130-135 and he stopped DeMarco quicker and more impressively.

I noticed the word "great" sometimes gets thrown around without the fighters actually earning it.