Roy Jones Jr better than Sugar Ray Robinson?

[Boxing Goat]

Alex, I appreciate your modern view of things; but seriously, you'd better do a double take of Robinson's resume and when he started to lose.....how many fights he won before that happened, the quality of his competition, and how often he fought.

The majority of his losses came as an old man above his natural weight, just as Jones has been piling up the losses since Tarver smashed him. And those knock out losses are also something to consider. Jones has proven he really doesn't have that good of a chin, while Ray was only stopped once in a bid for the light heavyweight title; and that was a fight he was winning against Joey Maxim before the extreme heat under the lights that night forced him to retire in his corner from heat prostration. Don't take my word for it, look at the video.

Also, back to Jones' chin. Robinson could hit you (he was fast enough and technically skilled enough to hit Jones) and hurt you with any punch he through. For the longest time, he was considered the fastest fighter who'd ever lived. Now, I'm not saying he's faster than Roy because I don't think he is; but speed is countered by timing and a good jab. Ray had both.

Just sayin'. Don't go on the specs, the stats, or even what we fans of the old timers say. Look up the footage, watch the fights, compare relative competition and put everything into perspective. Jones has been stopped by Tarver, Johnson, Green, and.....I can't remember who else lately. Yes, I know he was old; but so was George Foremen. A chin is a chin is a chin; and Roy never got caught in his prime, really, due to his reflexes, which I suppose is your argument.

You can't fight Robinson for 15 rounds and not get hit, not even if you're Roy Jones Jr.

To play devils advocate, and I see your points, Roy never lost a fight or was even close to losing legitimately during his prime years and that was against two ATG's, a few HOF'rs and like 17 or so world titlists, and a top 5 heavyweight.

Just saying.

[Humean]

The Jones vs Robinson Thread was done not even 2 months ago!!!!
This is a thread to "bother people" theres NO value in it its just to cause a problem.
These kids alexK and lickadic and tommo1 are only about internet argueing. They have NO lives on their own and have failed at school so their attention span is tiny!!!! Theres no reason for them to exist on this forum and why their tolerated is beyond me!

That being said I'll pop in & out as I see something interesting but to stop by on a daily routine isn't worth the trouble of reading garbage like this!!
Its a shame how these few kids have run down this section!! Ray Corso

I agree that these guys opinions are not worth much but to be fair the whole point of an internet forum is to argue. Argument is the life blood of knowledge.

[Humean]

To play devils advocate, and I see your points, Roy never lost a fight or was even close to losing legitimately during his prime years and that was against two ATG's, a few HOF'rs and like 17 or so world titlists, and a top 5 heavyweight.

Just saying.

To play devil's advocate the other way:

Toney's status as an ATG is highly questionable and Hopkins was not in his prime when they met. Indeed Hopkins was a good few years away from his prime.

[AlexKid]

The Jones vs Robinson Thread was done not even 2 months ago!!!!
This is a thread to "bother people" theres NO value in it its just to cause a problem.
These kids alexK and lickadic and tommo1 are only about internet argueing. They have NO lives on their own and have failed at school so their attention span is tiny!!!! Theres no reason for them to exist on this forum and why their tolerated is beyond me!

That being said I'll pop in & out as I see something interesting but to stop by on a daily routine isn't worth the trouble of reading garbage like this!!
Its a shame how these few kids have run down this section!! Ray Corso

I have a degree, what do you have Ray?

Do you have a NVQ in trolling?

[likeamulekick]

The Jones vs Robinson Thread was done not even 2 months ago!!!!
This is a thread to "bother people" theres NO value in it its just to cause a problem.
These kids alexK and lickadic and tommo1 are only about internet argueing. They have NO lives on their own and have failed at school so their attention span is tiny!!!! Theres no reason for them to exist on this forum and why their tolerated is beyond me!

That being said I'll pop in & out as I see something interesting but to stop by on a daily routine isn't worth the trouble of reading garbage like this!!
Its a shame how these few kids have run down this section!! Ray Corso

glad my name wasn't mentioned, whos this lickadic, I already have a good feeling about this guy

[Boxing Goat]

did you watch those Tarver III is the best seeing how he was just plain outboxed the whole 12 rounds but Tarver II shows you just need the one punch to change it all Tarver I is not to shabby either as far as speed being negated by skill and technique and when it comes to skill and Technique Tarver has nothing on SRR

From Tarver I on, it was obvious Roy was nowhere close to himself and it had nothing to do with Tarvers closed eye punch.

A prime Jones is not even in range for that shot to land.

[billeau2]

It is quitean assumption to say that Jones was past it when he got tagged by Tarver....I am always fond of reminding people about how things were at the time, because Lawdy...lawdy....lawdy how quickly we forget! No one before the Tarver fight percieved Roy as being in decline. In fact most people felt like Jones had created a fear of his attack that prevented others from pulling the proverbial trigger.

What Tarver essentially did was to go in and ignore this patina of invincability and catch Jones. People were incredulous and could not believe Roy got caught.

So to say that Jones was the **** prior to Tarver, like Jones worshippers often do...is Bull****. Tarver was a hard hitting, relatively fast, relatively skilled orthodox fighter who could also pack a wallop. He was just fast enough to catch up with Jones and was not intimidated at all by Jones. That seminal event created a blueprint for beatring Jones. The fact that Toney failed in his first attempt is a credit to Jones, but who is to say that if they had fought again Toney would not have done better? The difference as I see it was that Toney is actually a bit more of a counter puncher than Tarver. you COULD NOT COUNTER JONES at the time.

By contrast Robinson never showed a weakness like that.

[Boxing Goat]

To play devil's advocate the other way:

Toney's status as an ATG is highly questionable and Hopkins was not in his prime when they met. Indeed Hopkins was a good few years away from his prime.

Nice try:

Just because you think Hopkins was green and it's popular to say doesn't mean much considering how Hopkins was older than Roy, had more fights then didn't lose again for 11 years afterwards.

It's funny how people question Toney now that he's an old fat bum when he came from middleweight to knock out a still good version of Holyfield when not even Lennox Lewis was able to.

Nice playing devils advocate to my devils advocate when I wasn't even talking to you, cheif.

[Boxing Goat]

It is quitean assumption to say that Jones was past it when he got tagged by Tarver....I am always fond of reminding people about how things were at the time, because Lawdy...lawdy....lawdy how quickly we forget! No one before the Tarver fight percieved Roy as being in decline. In fact most people felt like Jones had created a fear of his attack that prevented others from pulling the proverbial trigger.

What Tarver essentially did was to go in and ignore this patina of invincability and catch Jones. People were incredulous and could not believe Roy got caught.

So to say that Jones was the **** prior to Tarver, like Jones worshippers often do...is Bull****. Tarver was a hard hitting, relatively fast, relatively skilled orthodox fighter who could also pack a wallop. He was just fast enough to catch up with Jones and was not intimidated at all by Jones. That seminal event created a blueprint for beatring Jones. The fact that Toney failed in his first attempt is a credit to Jones, but who is to say that if they had fought again Toney would not have done better? The difference as I see it was that Toney is actually a bit more of a counter puncher than Tarver. you COULD NOT COUNTER JONES at the time.

By contrast Robinson never showed a weakness like that.

Lol, all you have to do is watch the Woods fight and then Tarver I to see how badly Jones' reflexes deteriorated during that time.

I know what I seen and one round into the Tarver I fight I knew something was wrong with Roy.

I mean, how is Roy going to almost get beat by Tarver, a guy who went life and death with a guy like Glenn Johnson when Johnson got slaughtered by the same green Hopkins you all say Roy beat easily?

I know triangle theories don't work in boxing but the skill level translates.

Roy was not the same and as examples like Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers indicate, the weight drop from heavyweight was the most likely reason for it.

[bklynboy]

Lol, all you have to do is watch the Woods fight and then Tarver I to see how badly Jones' reflexes deteriorated during that time.

I know what I seen and one round into the Tarver I fight I knew something was wrong with Roy.

I mean, how is Roy going to almost get beat by Tarver, a guy who went life and death with a guy like Glenn Johnson when Johnson got slaughtered by the same green Hopkins you all say Roy beat easily?

I know triangle theories don't work in boxing but the skill level translates.

Roy was not the same and as examples like Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers indicate, the weight drop from heavyweight was the most likely reason for it.

I remember the fight. Everyone was shocked that Jones got KOed. Then he then lost to Johnson and should have retired. He definitely should have retired after Tarver III.

I don't think the weight drop had anything to do with it. RJJ was already about 35 then; his reflexes slowed; and he was fighting someone who wasn't intimidated by his rep. He was no longer the RJJ of old.