Roy Jones Jr better than Sugar Ray Robinson?

[AlexKid]

Lets clear one thing up a good big guy usually beats a good small guy and both these guys were very very good, so in a fight obviously Roy Jones smashes Ray Robinsion due to being not only bigger but faster and more powerful. It would be a slaughter. Thats a fact.

Now weve cleared the facts out of the way lets discuss who was better when it comes to p4p.

Roy went from very low weight classes all the way to heavyweight!

Roy totally dominated all other fighters, he had serious competition in Hopkins and James Toney etc who went on to do great things after too.

He was the fastest ever, the most athletically gifted fighter, his KO highlight reel is far more spectacular than Rays rather boring slow bland KO highlight reel. (in comparrison)

Who do you think was better p4p and why and by better I mean more effective as a fighter!?

[Panamaniac]

This proposed discussion is pretty much DOA, given that Sugar Ray Robinson is the undisputed greatest fighter p4p of all times.

What's next, is Lennox Lewis better than Joe Louis?

[AlexKid]

This proposed discussion is pretty much DOA, given that Sugar Ray Robinson is the undisputed greatest fighter p4p of all times.

What's next, is Lennox Lewis better than Joe Louis?

They always call the old fighters P4P GOAT but in 100 years from now it will be Roy Jones Jr they tout as best.

A guy gets more respect when he is further back in time or dead etc but the reality is Roy Jones Jr would destroy him and is alot more dominant in his prime. Sugar Rays career is chequered with losses all the way through. Prime roy was untouchable. Also Roy is so fast and athletic guys like Ray couldnt touch him, look at their highlights side by side you cant tell me Roy isnt by far the better fighter and pysical specimin!? Rays so slow, unathletic, lacks power, the guys he fights lack power. I could go on. Ray couldnt/didnt rise up the weight divisions like Roy did either.

[K-DOGG]

They always call the old fighters P4P GOAT but in 100 years from now it will be Roy Jones Jr they tout as best.

A guy gets more respect when he is further back in time or dead etc but the reality is Roy Jones Jr would destroy him and is alot more dominant in his prime. Sugar Rays career is chequered with losses all the way through. Prime roy was untouchable. Also Roy is so fast and athletic guys like Ray couldnt touch him, look at their highlights side by side you cant tell me Roy isnt by far the better fighter and pysical specimin!? Rays so slow, unathletic, lacks power, the guys he fights lack power. I could go on. Ray couldnt/didnt rise up the weight divisions like Roy did either.

Alex, I appreciate your modern view of things; but seriously, you'd better do a double take of Robinson's resume and when he started to lose.....how many fights he won before that happened, the quality of his competition, and how often he fought.

The majority of his losses came as an old man above his natural weight, just as Jones has been piling up the losses since Tarver smashed him. And those knock out losses are also something to consider. Jones has proven he really doesn't have that good of a chin, while Ray was only stopped once in a bid for the light heavyweight title; and that was a fight he was winning against Joey Maxim before the extreme heat under the lights that night forced him to retire in his corner from heat prostration. Don't take my word for it, look at the video.

Also, back to Jones' chin. Robinson could hit you (he was fast enough and technically skilled enough to hit Jones) and hurt you with any punch he through. For the longest time, he was considered the fastest fighter who'd ever lived. Now, I'm not saying he's faster than Roy because I don't think he is; but speed is countered by timing and a good jab. Ray had both.

Just sayin'. Don't go on the specs, the stats, or even what we fans of the old timers say. Look up the footage, watch the fights, compare relative competition and put everything into perspective. Jones has been stopped by Tarver, Johnson, Green, and.....I can't remember who else lately. Yes, I know he was old; but so was George Foremen. A chin is a chin is a chin; and Roy never got caught in his prime, really, due to his reflexes, which I suppose is your argument.

You can't fight Robinson for 15 rounds and not get hit, not even if you're Roy Jones Jr.

[Bolo Punch]

They always call the old fighters P4P GOAT but in 100 years from now it will be Roy Jones Jr they tout as best.

A guy gets more respect when he is further back in time or dead etc but the reality is Roy Jones Jr would destroy him and is alot more dominant in his prime. Sugar Rays career is chequered with losses all the way through. Prime roy was untouchable. Also Roy is so fast and athletic guys like Ray couldnt touch him, look at their highlights side by side you cant tell me Roy isnt by far the better fighter and pysical specimin!? Rays so slow, unathletic, lacks power, the guys he fights lack power. I could go on. Ray couldnt/didnt rise up the weight divisions like Roy did either.

Am I reading this correctly? The bits that I've put in bold are especially astounding in terms of ******ity.

Sugar Ray Robinson was 128-1 at a point in his career and that one loss came against the great Jake LaMotta who he himself had beaten five times. Other notable wins in that streak include Sammy Agnott x3 (who won the World Lightweight title just 5 months after their first bout), Fritzie Zivic x2, Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan x2, as well as many others against top contenders of the day.

Also, Ray was a mere 3 rounds away from capturing the Light-Heavyweight title before having to retire due to the 104-degree heat. In fact, the heat was so severe that even the referee had to be changed mid-fight because Ruby Goldstein damn near passed out. Add this to the fact that, as previously mentioned, at the very beginning of his career he defeated someone who would go on to be the Lightweight champion of the world very shortly after losing to Ray (and that fight happened just 1.5lbs over the LW limit). That should well and truly put to bed any queries over whether Ray had the ability to climb the weight classes or not.

Oh, and I don't know why you keep saying how Roy would crush Ray. Ray's prime was at 147lbs; Jones' prime was at 168/175lbs. It is irrelevant to say that Jones would beat Robinson in a head to head fight when there's such a gulf in weight between the two. Bob Foster would probably KO Thomas Hearns in a round, but that doesn't mean he's the better fighter. What I will say, though, is that Robinson's career at 160 is more impressive than Jones'.

[Chessman]

Anthony Small

[SBleeder]

Roy went from very low weight classes all the way to heavyweight!

Middleweight. What a very low weight class it is.

[SBleeder]

Rays so slow, unathletic, lacks power, the guys he fights lack power. I could go on.

You could go on, but it's unnecessary since everyone can already conclude that you're an idiot.

[Humean]

Another nomination for the most ignorant thread and posts.

AlexKid - Amongst your other shortcomings you really need to learn what a fact is. A clue: your own opinion does not constitute a fact!

[bklynboy]

Lets clear one thing up a good big guy usually beats a good small guy and both these guys were very very good, so in a fight obviously Roy Jones smashes Ray Robinsion due to being not only bigger but faster and more powerful. It would be a slaughter. Thats a fact.

Now weve cleared the facts out of the way lets discuss who was better when it comes to p4p.

Roy went from very low weight classes all the way to heavyweight!

Roy totally dominated all other fighters, he had serious competition in Hopkins and James Toney etc who went on to do great things after too.

He was the fastest ever, the most athletically gifted fighter, his KO highlight reel is far more spectacular than Rays rather boring slow bland KO highlight reel. (in comparrison)

Who do you think was better p4p and why and by better I mean more effective as a fighter!?

How well has Roy Jones done after his reflexes went south?