Is De La Hoya top 10 all time at welterweight?

[Scott9945]

Absolutely not. Not even close either.

When I read this thread I was about to post the exact same thing.

[soul_survivor]

Yes he is. Why not? Name me 10 guys who are clearly better than him, CLEARLY!

You guys are all saying absolutely not and crap like that, I can understand him being just barely left out of the top 10 or 15 but saying he has no chance? Why not?

His resume at 147 includes Sweet Pea, JCC, Camacho, Kamau, Rivera, Quartey, Tito, Mosley and Gatti. All of them except JCC were primed or close to prime. Before his fight with Oscar, Whitaker was widely regarded as the best at 147, undefeated at the weight and was still good enough, a year and a half earlier, to fight and win a title at 154.

Rivera prior to fighting Oscar had given Pea two of his toughest fights yet.

Tito would go on to destroy middleweights and that fight was a HUGE robbery.

Mosley was probably juiced up as hell.

Oscar is a terrific fight at 147, great, maybe top 10 and just about scraping a top 15 but noway can anyone say he is clearly NOT a top 10 guy at welter.

[Scott9945]

Yes he is. Why not? Name me 10 guys who are clearly better than him, CLEARLY!

You guys are all saying absolutely not and crap like that, I can understand him being just barely left out of the top 10 or 15 but saying he has no chance? Why not?

His resume at 147 includes Sweet Pea, JCC, Camacho, Kamau, Rivera, Quartey, Tito, Mosley and Gatti. All of them except JCC were primed or close to prime. Before his fight with Oscar, Whitaker was widely regarded as the best at 147, undefeated at the weight and was still good enough, a year and a half earlier, to fight and win a title at 154.

Rivera prior to fighting Oscar had given Pea two of his toughest fights yet.

Tito would go on to destroy middleweights and that fight was a HUGE robbery.

Mosley was probably juiced up as hell.

Oscar is a terrific fight at 147, great, maybe top 10 and just about scraping a top 15 but noway can anyone say he is clearly NOT a top 10 guy at welter.

Robinson
Leonard
Basilio
Napoles
Mayweather
Hearns
Armstrong
Gavilan
Griffith
Ross

There you have 10 welterweights who were CLEARLY better than DLH. And I could easily have added more. Whining about being robbed against Trinidad (he wasn't) and Mosley being juiced (no proof) doesn't help your case.

[HWChampion]

Robinson
Leonard
Basilio
Napoles
Mayweather
Hearns
Armstrong
Gavilan
Griffith
Ross

There you have 10 welterweights who were CLEARLY better than DLH. And I could easily have added more. Whining about being robbed against Trinidad (he wasn't) and Mosley being juiced (no proof) doesn't help your case.

May weather is not better than dela Hoya no way.

[soul_survivor]

Robinson
Leonard
Basilio
Napoles
Mayweather
Hearns
Armstrong
Gavilan
Griffith
Ross

There you have 10 welterweights who were CLEARLY better than DLH. And I could easily have added more. Whining about being robbed against Trinidad (he wasn't) and Mosley being juiced (no proof) doesn't help your case.

Mayweather? No and I think most people with a basic understanding of boxing would disagree with you on that.

Carmen Basilio? Again that's a no, I know people like to look at fighters from the black and white era with rose tinted glasses but the only great near prime fighter Basilio fought at 147 was Kid Gavilan and he lost, getting thoroughly outboxed over the second half of the fight. Basilio eventually won the WW title but had it for a handful of fight, most of which were non-title affairs.

Oscar's run at 147 is miles better than Mayweathers and better than Basilio's too. Come on man. That's 8 names better than Oscar but someone like Napoles who had a a lengthy time as opinion lacked quality opponents. He beat a faded Griffith and would lose to the likes of Backus who let's be honest, was not an elite fighter by any stretch of the imagination. Not only was it a loss, i twas a stoppage, against a guy who didn't exactly hit hard either.

That's 3 guys Oscar could easily be ranked above.

Now I'm not saying Oscar is a must have in the top 10 but he should definitely be under consideration, and my original post was in reply to a group of people simply side stepping Oscar as a top 10 WW but as I've proven here, there are 3 names he could be ranked above, 2 of them quite easily imo, Mayweather and Basilio.

If not a top 10 guy then at the very least a top 15, again this is in response to another poster you said he would make a top 20-25 lol

I just want to say, posting names of guys in black and white when it's difficult to find footage of them and ranking them above recent fighters is funny and shouldn't be done, because I know you're trying to come across as knowledgeable but it comes across as trying to b pretentious and just makes it seem like you don't know anything about boxing.

[Scott9945]

Mayweather? No and I think most people with a basic understanding of boxing would disagree with you on that.

Carmen Basilio? Again that's a no, I know people like to look at fighters from the black and white era with rose tinted glasses but the only great near prime fighter Basilio fought at 147 was Kid Gavilan and he lost, getting thoroughly outboxed over the second half of the fight. Basilio eventually won the WW title but had it for a handful of fight, most of which were non-title affairs.

Oscar's run at 147 is miles better than Mayweathers and better than Basilio's too. Come on man. That's 8 names better than Oscar but someone like Napoles who had a a lengthy time as opinion lacked quality opponents. He beat a faded Griffith and would lose to the likes of Backus who let's be honest, was not an elite fighter by any stretch of the imagination. Not only was it a loss, i twas a stoppage, against a guy who didn't exactly hit hard either.

That's 3 guys Oscar could easily be ranked above.

Now I'm not saying Oscar is a must have in the top 10 but he should definitely be under consideration, and my original post was in reply to a group of people simply side stepping Oscar as a top 10 WW but as I've proven here, there are 3 names he could be ranked above, 2 of them quite easily imo, Mayweather and Basilio.

If not a top 10 guy then at the very least a top 15, again this is in response to another poster you said he would make a top 20-25 lol

I just want to say, posting names of guys in black and white when it's difficult to find footage of them and ranking them above recent fighters is funny and shouldn't be done, because I know you're trying to come across as knowledgeable but it comes across as trying to b pretentious and just makes it seem like you don't know anything about boxing.

Once I read where you said that Napoles "wasn't an elite fighter by any stretch of the imagination", you lost any credibility with me. His fights were filmed in living color, happened during my lifetime, and he would have sliced Oscar up like a Thanksgiving turkey. Napoles only lost to Backus because of cuts, and immediately destroyed him in a rematch. Oscar fought some big names at 147, lost to two of them, and could have lost to two more. Sorry if that comes off as pretentious.

[joseph5620]

Once I read where you said that Napoles "wasn't an elite fighter by any stretch of the imagination", you lost any credibility with me. His fights were filmed in living color, happened during my lifetime, and he would have sliced Oscar up like a Thanksgiving turkey. Napoles only lost to Backus because of cuts, and immediately destroyed him in a rematch. Oscar fought some big names at 147, lost to two of them, and could have lost to two more. Sorry if that comes off as pretentious.

[SBleeder]

I just want to say, posting names of guys in black and white when it's difficult to find footage of them and ranking them above recent fighters is funny and shouldn't be done, because I know you're trying to come across as knowledgeable but it comes across as trying to b pretentious and just makes it seem like you don't know anything about boxing.

There is a plethora of footage of every fighter he listed. You just don't want to bother with watching it.

[The Surgeon]

No chance though imo he is a great fighter. Better at 140

[IronDanHamza]

Yes he is. Why not? Name me 10 guys who are clearly better than him, CLEARLY!

You guys are all saying absolutely not and crap like that, I can understand him being just barely left out of the top 10 or 15 but saying he has no chance? Why not?

His resume at 147 includes Sweet Pea, JCC, Camacho, Kamau, Rivera, Quartey, Tito, Mosley and Gatti. All of them except JCC were primed or close to prime. Before his fight with Oscar, Whitaker was widely regarded as the best at 147, undefeated at the weight and was still good enough, a year and a half earlier, to fight and win a title at 154.

Rivera prior to fighting Oscar had given Pea two of his toughest fights yet.

Tito would go on to destroy middleweights and that fight was a HUGE robbery.

Mosley was probably juiced up as hell.

Oscar is a terrific fight at 147, great, maybe top 10 and just about scraping a top 15 but noway can anyone say he is clearly NOT a top 10 guy at welter.

Sugar Ray Robinson
Henry Armstrong
Ray Leonard
Joe Walcott
Kid Gavilan
Emile Griffith
Jimmy Mclarnin
Barney Ross
Jose Napoles
Tommy Hearns

There's a list of 10 obvious and clear ones.

Then there's guy's like;

Walker
Corbett 3
Burley
Rodriguez
Basillio
Duran

Etc

Then there's guy's from his era like Whitaker and Trinidad

Yeah..Absolutely not. And not even close.