Is De La Hoya top 10 all time at welterweight?

[Humean]

I don't, Basilio lost. I can't give Delahoya credit for Trinidad because he lost against a great welterweight if we're not playing what if games.

Britton beat Walker less than a year previously if I recall, and I hold rematch wins over fellow ATGs in high regard.

Basilio had no such privilege.

Well as I said that is ridiculous, your judgment is then based entirely on the competency of the judges, judges who in that era could even conceivably have even been corrupt. By dismissing it so readily you are discounting a potential draw or win against a fighter who most would surely have in their top 5 Welterweights of all time. Even a narrow loss has to count a great deal against such a great fighter. You are stacking the deck unfairly against Basilio. I think people should judge on their own so that you could even give credit to De la Hoya if you really think he beat Trinidad.

Yeah Britton did win the year earlier. That was a newspaper win though, not sure how we should judge them. Anyway i'm not dismissing Walker he is certainly as top 10 candidate. I'm always wary of judging the late 19th century up to the 1930s fighters because of the lack of [good] footage and all the newspaper decisions.

[Humean]

ROFL. The only prime welters destroying a prime Delahoya would be Hearns and Leonard

You think Robinson and Armstrong would struggle?

[GRboxing]

You think Robinson and Armstrong would struggle?

Well Robinson obviously but Armstrong was quite small for 147, and if a fighter like Trinidad who was similar in style couldn't do it then I have trouble seeing Armstrong "Destroy" a fighter with the skill and size of Delahoya.

[GRboxing]

so 'young robbed' would rather Red K people than actually debate on a forum revolving around debate? Wimp.

[GRboxing]

Well as I said that is ridiculous, your judgment is then based entirely on the competency of the judges, judges who in that era could even conceivably have even been corrupt. By dismissing it so readily you are discounting a potential draw or win against a fighter who most would surely have in their top 5 Welterweights of all time. Even a narrow loss has to count a great deal against such a great fighter. You are stacking the deck unfairly against Basilio. I think people should judge on their own so that you could even give credit to De la Hoya if you really think he beat Trinidad.

Yeah Britton did win the year earlier. That was a newspaper win though, not sure how we should judge them. Anyway i'm not dismissing Walker he is certainly as top 10 candidate. I'm always wary of judging the late 19th century up to the 1930s fighters because of the lack of [good] footage and all the newspaper decisions.

I dont. Look at their records. How much great quality footage do we have of Robinson at 147 yet people claim he is the GOAT there regardless. Look at Greb. Do you doubt his greatness too?

[Scott9945]

ROFL. The only prime welters destroying a prime Delahoya would be Hearns and Leonard

Not Sugar Ray Robinson?

[Humean]

Well Robinson obviously but Armstrong was quite small for 147, and if a fighter like Trinidad who was similar in style couldn't do it then I have trouble seeing Armstrong "Destroy" a fighter with the skill and size of Delahoya.

I dont think Trinidad and Armstrong were especially similar. I'm not sure what the correct style to characterize Trinidad is but some combination of slugger and stalking puncher. Armstrong was your swarmer par excellence, he'd be all over De la Hoya who didn't have the footwork nor the inside game, neither defensively nor offensively, to deal with that. His size may have been a factor though, hard to tell how much so.

[Humean]

I dont. Look at their records. How much great quality footage do we have of Robinson at 147 yet people claim he is the GOAT there regardless. Look at Greb. Do you doubt his greatness too?

With Robinson there is a lot of footage at Middleweight plus footage of Welterweights he fought, therefore it is easier to gauge his greatness. I don't doubt Greb was great but I suppose I do question those who unequivocal consider him about the greatest fighter of all time. I've seen at least one poster on here who claimed he was their favourite fighter, a fighter they can't possibly have seen fight because there is no known surviving footage!

[GRboxing]

I dont think Trinidad and Armstrong were especially similar. I'm not sure what the correct style to characterize Trinidad is but some combination of slugger and stalking puncher. Armstrong was your swarmer par excellence, he'd be all over De la Hoya who didn't have the footwork nor the inside game, neither defensively nor offensively, to deal with that. His size may have been a factor though, hard to tell how much so.

Neither Armstrong nor Delahoya fought a similar style like eachother. Size would play a factor. When was Oscar ever close to being destroyed at 140 or 147 and he fought great competition.

Oscar could jab and move just fine when people pressed him. His footwork and jab would be big keys, actually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD9iAXNXIjw

[Humean]

Neither Armstrong nor Delahoya fought a similar style like eachother. Size would play a factor. When was Oscar ever close to being destroyed at 140 or 147 and he fought great competition.

Oscar could jab and move just fine when people pressed him. His footwork and jab would be big keys, actually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD9iAXNXIjw

I don't believe he'd have kept a prime Armstrong or indeed a prime Chavez off him.

I'm not quite so convinced about great competition. I'm honestly not dismissing De La Hoya, I even said he might be in my top 20 but I think you have too much bias for the more recent fighters, perhaps you think my bias goes the opposite way.

Anyway this is my last post of the night, i'll comment further tomorrow should you respond.