When we were Kings(Foreman on the bag :D)

[Pugnacious_Z]

have any1 of u seen rocky hit a 300lb bag? if not ill post it

[Southpaw Stinger]

please post it.

[Kid Achilles]

Yes please do.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Louis wasn't just a contender when he faced Marciano, he was ranked as the #2 contender, and before Walcott had upset Charles a few months earlier, Louis was listed as the #1 contender for the title (with the title loss Charles fell into the #1 spot over Louis, who had recently been very active with wins over lower ranked top ten contenders and fighters just recently ousted from the ratings). Also, if Charles had retained his title against Walcott on that occasion, Louis would have been the very next challenger to the title...Here's The Ring ratings from Aug of 1951, which was just after Walcott/Charles and just before Marciano/Louis;

Champ: Jersey Joe Walcott
1: Ezzard Charles
2: Joe Louis
3: Rocky Marciano
4: Clarence Henry
5: Roland LaStarza
6: Bob Baker
7: Rex Layne
8: Cesar Brion
9: Lee Savold
10: Hein Nuehaus

I think that shows how terrible the heavyweight division was then. Low weighting heavy's dominate the top and Marciano beating bums to get there. It's amazing that Louis managed to get that far despite the mess the division was in. Watching his fights of that time is depressing. He was a shadow of his former self, balding, bulky, slow. Louis was fighting because he needed the money, not because he wanted to.

He started out well against Marciano, but his stamina wasn't what it used to be and Marciano wore him down. Very upsetting seeing Louis in the ring in that condition. A prime Louis would beat Marciano. I consider Louis the second greatest heavy of all time, after Ali. And Foreman the hardest hitter of all time.

[Yogi]

Low weighting heavy's dominate the top and Marciano beating bums to get there.

For an obvious George Foreman fan I'm not all that sure you'd want to make thses comments here, because Foreman's era was also filled with what we would call "small Heavyweights"...In the Dec 1972 of The Ring, which was just before Foreman won the title, you had guys like Joe Frazier, Jimmy Ellis, Floyd Patterson, Oscar Bonavena, Jurgin Blin, Jose Roman all finding spots in the top ten and no one would ever consider any of those fighters to be anything close to giants. As a matter of fact, both the Dec of '72 and the Aug of '51 rankings show that Foreman & Marciano were competing over top ten rankings with Heavyweights of nearly the same exact size (on avg. 6'1.5-205 vs. 6'1-199). That's not to say that Foreman & Marciano fought the same sized fighters...just from those two rankings, that's the size of the Heavyweights that were ranked at the time were very nearly the same.

Also, as a Foreman fan I certainly wouldn't be making the claim of "Marciano beating bums to get there", because Foreman beat who again before challenging for the title?

I'll easily take Marciano's pre-title winning competition over Foreman's, no doubt about it, because I can only confirm ONE single top ten ranked contender that Foreman beat on his way to the title (that being 10th ranked Gregorio Peralta in Feb of '70). George Chuvalo might have been ranked when Foreman beat him, but I can't confirm it...Ah, I'll give Big George that one just to be kind, but only so the mere two contnders that Foreman beat compares better with the five top ten ranked contenders that Marciano beat prior to winning the title (LaStarza, Layne, Louis, Matthews, and Savold).

P.S. In regards to the rest of your post about Louis' high all-time ranking and favouring him to beat Marciano at his best/prime...yeah, I pretty much agree with that.

[Southpaw16]

James Toney or something plays Foreman or Frazier in that... I think

Toney played Frazier, Charles Shufford plays Foreman.

[butterfly1964]

Foreman was nicknamed "the mummy" by many, and you're going to tell me he was lightning? He beat Norton, and he beat Frazier. He was not quicker than they were, however. Norton and Frazier both beat Ali who was faster than either of them (even in 1973). But wait a minute...Ali stomped Foreman, so the fact that he beat Frazier and Norton doesn't mean anything.

A beats B, and B beats C...this does not mean that A will beat C. It also doesn't mean that one is faster than another. Rocky's attack was quick, not necessarily his footspeed. When his hands were unloading, they got to the target pretty quickly in most cases. Even so, Foreman likely hit harder than Marciano. As I said before, two well conditioned guys who rely on power; the difference will come down to size (in most cases, not all).

ali gave him that name because he looked like that when he and ali fought that one time. he didn't look that slow when he fought everyone before that. marciano was out classed by most of his opponents he fought, but he managed to knock them out, which is the only reason why he won many of his fights in the first place. ali said that foreman was one of the quickest men on his feet he ever fought. foreman had probably the best jab in the 70s out of everyone, a great combination of speed and strength. before fighting ali, many thought that foreman was probably the best hw anyone had ever seen. jack dempsey and joe louis said that george foreman was the best hw they ever saw. nobody said that about marciano. all they said is that he hit hard, and he had good stamina and that's it. so think before you post. i enjoy most of your posts, but you are apparently starting to slip.

[Yogi]

marciano was out classed by most of his opponents he fought, but he managed to knock them out, which is the only reason why he won many of his fights in the first place.

Care to elaborate on that "Marciano was outclassed by most of his opponents" statement and give some examples of when that was the case, Butterfly?

[Southpaw Stinger]

Vs Walcott 1951. Marciano down in the 1st round and spends most of the fight absorbing punishment. Walcott would have clearly won on points if it had went the distance but Marciano managed to land suzie Q to knock out Walcott in the 13th. His right hand saved the fight for him.

[Yogi]

Vs Walcott 1951. Marciano down in the 1st round and spends most of the fight absorbing punishment. Walcott would have clearly won on points if it had went the distance but Marciano managed to land suzie Q to knock out Walcott in the 13th. His right hand saved the fight for him.

That's the one obvious example you'll find (and I was thinking about putting "besides Walcott I" in my previopus post), but is there any other ones, because I certainly didn't see or even read any?

*shrugs*

And even I don't think Walcott had the fight in the bag when the KO occured...Wasn't the scoring at the time around 7-5, 7-5, and 7-4-1 or something like that (with three of those rounds being fought by a blind Marciano)? I need to check to make sure, but if that was the case, it wouldn't have been impossible for Marciano to pull out the draw or something, especially considering that Walcott was very noticably the more exhausted fighter at the end of the 12th.