When we were Kings(Foreman on the bag :D)

[Thunder Lips]

"I'm talking about lbs of Force, not psi.
I have heard of the Tyson Bruno thing, Tyson was 16, Bruno was 20+ Bruno punched at 1600 lbs of force, Tyson 1500. That could just be one of those forum circulating "facts"."

Sadly, none of this seems to be true. Bruno's straight cross was in fact officially measured but it was for some sort of study for potential brain damage on boxers. Bruno's best punch measured 6320 newtons.

Here's a link:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pic...1&blobtype=pdf

This roughly translates into 1,420 lbs of impact.

Marciano's test didn't measure impact in the same way as it was more of a bullet test, measured in 925 foot pounds(pounds per traveled foot) which is on par or stronger than some bullets. This means a lunging fully extended punch like the Susie Q would most likely surpass Bruno's impact rating.

This is of course assuming all these tests are correct.

anyways, give this a watch and judge for yourself.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XRNY_EG4IEc&feature=related

This seems like bull****. Sorry.

Marciano's knockout ratio: 88%
Foreman's knockout ratio: 89%

Pretty damn close. Foreman has more kos but he didn't step up into serious comp until his 37th fight with Fraizer though.

[them_apples]

Brunos punch measures 1400+ lbs of force according to you, yet somehow Marciano comes out on top?

Marcianos KO record is vs 190 lb middleweights, Foreman is hitting guys around 220, better fighters to.


lbs of force is lbs of force enough said

[Thunder Lips]

"Brunos punch measures 1400+ lbs of force according to you, yet somehow Marciano comes out on top? "

Not according to me but simple rules of conversion. That is assuming the test was accurate.

Assuming Rocky's test was accurate were talking 925 foot pounds (925 pounds per travelled foot) on a right cross that most likely travelled more than a foot. Rocky's arms were short but they weren't that short.

This is all scientific mumbo jumbo anyway. I only bring up the Rocky thing because I don't think the military's comments on his power are pretty indisuptable.


"Marcianos KO record is vs 190 lb middleweights, Foreman is hitting guys around 220, better fighters to."

Yawn....

[Boogie Nights]

i laugh at how people say marciano hits harder than foreman, and bring up these scientific tests which really dont mean ****.

lol this **** is hilarious, marciano hitting harder than foreman.

rocky is not even a top ten hardest puncher, i dont know what these guys are smoking

[Thunder Lips]

i laugh at how people say marciano hits harder than foreman, and bring up these scientific tests which really dont mean ****.

lol this **** is hilarious, marciano hitting harder than foreman.

rocky is not even a top ten hardest puncher, i dont know what these guys are smoking

Find me the quote where I say Marciano hit harder than Foreman.

Do you mean this one:

"Foreman was probably a harder puncher I think...."

I only disagree with the notion that Marciano was lacking heavyweight power. He lacked many things but that was certainly not one of them.

In the future if you want to debate my posts or waste your time mocking me, at least read them. Say what you will about Them Apples but the man at least knows what he is disagreeing with. This is the second time you have brought up a phantom post of mine that only exists in your head,I will waste no more time with you.

I believe both Marciano and Foreman have scored some of the most impressive knockouts in boxing history and deserve their reputations. I believe Foreman may have been the bigger hitter but there is no way of really knowing for sure, I can only speculate like anyone else. I stand by my comments that because of his super workrate and stamina, Marciano was easily better at breaking down defensively skilled mobile boxers than Foreman. Foreman couldn't knock the ancient light heavy Perata over with a baseball bat half way through their fight, Marciano carried one punch power to the 13th round at the least.

[Boogie Nights]

Find me the quote where I say Marciano hit harder than Foreman.

Do you mean this one:

"Foreman was probably a harder puncher I think...."

I only disagree with the notion that Marciano was lacking heavyweight power. He lacked many things but that was certainly not one of them.

In the future if you want to debate my posts or waste your time mocking me, at least read them. Say what you will about Them Apples but the man at least knows what he is disagreeing with. This is the second time you have brought up a phantom post of mine that only exists in your head,I will waste no more time with you.

I believe both Marciano and Foreman have scored some of the most impressive knockouts in boxing history and deserve their reputations. I believe Foreman may have been the bigger hitter but there is no way of really knowing for sure, I can only speculate like anyone else. I stand by my comments that because of his super workrate and stamina, Marciano was easily better at breaking down defensively skilled mobile boxers than Foreman. Foreman couldn't knock the ancient light heavy Perata over with a baseball bat half way through their fight, Marciano carried one punch power to the 13th round at the least.

Dude relax, where did you see me use the name Thunder Lips? Did i adress you? No, i didnt. i said people, fans on this forum, and you were one of them yes, but i didnt single you out. if you still sore about that holyfield vs marciano thread, then let it go. you seem to think i have some kind of agenda where all i do the whole day is read you posts.

i remember a thread where you said tunney and some other heavyweight would have a chance against rocky, as you put it. i could dig it up for you, but what would be the use of that? what you said in other posts i dont know, like i said you seem to have a high level of importance of yourself to think im e-stalking you. let it go man, dont take it to heart, and dont make it all about you.

with that said, rocky marciano was a great puncher, and hit very hard. but 185 pound slugger with 67'' reach was no match for 6'4, 220 pound heavyweight with a long reach.

no one is saying rocky didnt have power, he punched hard, but because his name is rocky marciano people seem to make special allowances for him, which isnt fair to other fighters. rocky wasnt a fighter in a heavyweight body, even today, if you follow boxing, you'd know that he would be a small cruiserweight. YEAH.

here's a list of fighters who punch harder than rocky, in no particular order

The Klitshko Brothers
Mike Tyson
Earnie Shavers
George Foreman
Razor Ruddock
Lennox Lewis
Rid**** Bowe
Corrie Sanders
Mike Weaver
Gerry Cooney

All these heavyweights punched significantly harder than rocky, make no mistake about that. these are not your average big men, these are heavyweights who pack alot of power. bigger and stronger. and this is just off the top of my head. any fighter above 200 pounds with good punching power will punch harder than rocky

like i said, as soon as people mention name marciano, they put him in the hot seat. the men that rocky knocked out were just as big or smaller than him. not to mention the high profile names on his resume were fighters older than him and already on decline

the whole la starza arguement doesnt hold enough weight behind it. so what if he busted up his arms? im sure if foreman stood in front of him and punched his toothpick arms repetitively it would have much greater effect and do much more damage if his arms were a target area for george's punches. or any other heavyweight for that matter.

rocky marciano busted his arms over the course of the fight, okay, well Jesus Chavez killed Leavander Johnson over 11 rounds, hiting him in the head and giving him brain damage. Does that make Chavez the hardest punching lightweight??

Nigell benn did his thing over mcclelan, does that make nigell the hardest hitting suppermiddleweight? some would say so, but id tell you that mclelan himself punched harder, so did julian jackson

fighters in sparring get their ribs broken from single punches in a single sparring session, does that make those sparring partners the hardest hitters?

marciano punched hard for his weight, and maybe above that, but putting him into the same league with foreman or the other guys i mentioned is redicilous.

plus as much as i like and respect rocky i dont understand how anyone can place him into the top ten greatest heavyweights of all time?? i dont agree with that, because he was overated in that regard. he would make a top 15 or be somewhere below top 20 but no where near top ten. that's a bull**** statement, coming from rocky groupies who make him into the heavyweight god.

i dont hate rocky, or discredit him, he was not a top ten heavyweight IMO. that 49-0 record is really deceiving, and if you ever took the time to break it down, you'd know what i mean. 80% of rocky's record was padded with below average fighers, who either lost many fights before or after, or never fought again. That's a fact my friend

[them_apples]

Didn't Foreman break someones arm to? I can't remember who, that's the problem!

The thing with Marciano is I think he wore guys down because of his endurance. Marciano punched all 15 rounds and probably didn't lose much power, this wore on a lot of other less developed fighters of the time.

plus as much as i like and respect rocky i dont understand how anyone can place him into the top ten greatest heavyweights of all time?? i dont agree with that, because he was overated in that regard. he would make a top 15 or be somewhere below top 20 but no where near top ten. that's a bull**** statement, coming from rocky groupies who make him into the heavyweight god.

You gotta give rocky a little bit of credit, he retired undefeated and was the phenom of his time. Obviously its ****** to compare rocky to more modern 'elite' heavyweights but I think he could possibly make number 10 just for being a household name.

[Boogie Nights]

Didn't Foreman break someones arm to? I can't remember who, that's the problem!

The thing with Marciano is I think he wore guys down because of his endurance. Marciano punched all 15 rounds and probably didn't lose much power, this wore on a lot of other less developed fighters of the time.



You gotta give rocky a little bit of credit, he retired undefeated and was the phenom of his time. Obviously its ****** to compare rocky to more modern 'elite' heavyweights but I think he could possibly make number 10 just for being a household name.

im gonna come up with a new thread about rocky in the future, about his 49-0 record and the opposition he faced.

im gonna break it down to every detail. and trust me once you see what im talking about i doubt you'll ever think about placing rock in the top

im not gonna make a thread trying to convince people that he wasnt a great fighter, im just gonna show them that 49-0 number is really deceiving

[Thunder Lips]

Lots of luck with that, it has all been debated before and everyone I believe has access to Box Rec and other sources if your just going to give a run down of guy's records.

I don't think anyone is under the impression that Rocky easily walked through 49 killers. However, his record wasn't intentionally padded, he faced much better regarded prospects earler in his career. No one thought highly of Rocky than and guys like Layne were overwhelming favorites against him.


"Sam Silverman, boxing promoter who provided many of Rocky's early opponents, admitted he brought in fighters with the anticipation that they would defeat Marciano.
"I thought Lowery was gonna lick Rocky. Rocky's fights were all legitimate, good, hard fights. A lot of people were talking about how he was being fed setups. Marciano could have lost any number of times in his early fights." "

Bobby Quinn
Quinn was 15-1 with 14 KOs when they fought. Rocky was 3-0 with 3 KOs and no trainer or handlers other than friends from Brockton such as Allie Columbo. This was actually viewed as an easy fight for Quinn. New England promoter Sam Silverman thought he was doing his friend Jimmy O'Keefe, Quinn's manager, a favor. "This Marchegiano kid's got nothing. He can punch all right, but I've never seen a fighter as clumsy. The kid doesn't know what he's doing out there. Quinn won't have no trouble with him."
Rocky knocked Quinn out in the third round with a short right that knocked him completely off his feet.
Eddie Ross
Ross was 26-0 with 23 KOs. Rocky was 4-0. Again, Rocky was looked at as an easy win for a more experianced fighter.
Sam Silverman recalled, "Ross was classy. I figured Rocky was bound to get beat, and Ross was the kid to do it. I threw Rocky in to give this kid another win."
Rocky knocked Ross out in 1 minute and 3 seconds of the first round.
Carmine Vingo
Vingo had a 27-3 record. Rocky was 24-0. Vingo was 6'4" and came in at 187 pounds. Rocky weighed only 180 3/4 pounds. Vingo had reach, weight, and a slight edge in experiance. The fight was brutal, with both landing powerful punches, but in the 6th Rocky all but destroyed Vingo, knocking him out. Sadly, Vingo was badly hurt and had to be rushed to the hospital. He survived, but never fully recovered. from the beating.


Box Rec gives slightly different records for these guys but it is possible they couldn't verify all of these fights, or just different sources of info. Smiliar listings though.

Eddie Ross is listed as 15-0 with 13 kos.
Bobby Quinn as 8-0 5 kos
Vingo 16-1 7 kos, put into a coma
LaStarza 37-0, not the same after the stoppage.
Lowry was a highly experienced journeyman

Than there are bigger sluggers thrown in to probably see how Rocky would react to them. Wilson had the most passable record.

Jerry Jackson 254
Johnny Shkor 220 TKO 6
Bill Wilson 230 TKO 1

Layne 34-1, never been stopped. Had big wins over guys like Walcott. The Great White Hope, compared to Dempsey, favored over Rocky. Never the same after the big right caught him. Got a win over Charles though.

Matthews 81-3. Moving up in weight but got a good win over Layne. Got some losses toward the end of his career but was never stopped again after the Marciano fight.

Moore, on a near decade win streak. Moved up in weight but lost only twice more after Rocky, to Ali and Patterson respectively. Knocked out decent 200 lb heavies as well.

Charles and Walcott looking great against each other. On the decline but had many great wins before facing Rocky. They were both done after facing Rocky though. Walcott got killed dead by Rocky and looked terrifed in the rematch, already 39 he hung them up. Charles picked up a few solid wins but wasn't the same after he was stopped either.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1K3TbEuf404

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I85_VBCVs_c

Rocky beat other prospects, beat peers, beat favorites, and caught a couple legends after one took the title and the other was still game. Rocky doesn't take claim for the Louis win but he wasn't bad off as some make out to be either. Not the greatest resume but still impressive, especially when he was fighting on a monthly schedule, had chronic injuries before turning pro(including a bad left hand), and was such a late starter.

[Boogie Nights]

Lots of luck with that, it has all been debated before and everyone I believe has access to Box Rec and other sources if your just going to give a run down of guy's records.

I don't think anyone is under the impression that Rocky easily walked through 49 killers. However, his record wasn't intentionally padded, he faced much better regarded prospects earler in his career. No one thought highly of Rocky than and guys like Layne were overwhelming favorites against him.


http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/ne...te=1&p=3577411


"Sam Silverman, boxing promoter who provided many of Rocky's early opponents, admitted he brought in fighters with the anticipation that they would defeat Marciano.
"I thought Lowery was gonna lick Rocky. Rocky's fights were all legitimate, good, hard fights. A lot of people were talking about how he was being fed setups. Marciano could have lost any number of times in his early fights." "

Bobby Quinn
Quinn was 15-1 with 14 KOs when they fought. Rocky was 3-0 with 3 KOs and no trainer or handlers other than friends from Brockton such as Allie Columbo. This was actually viewed as an easy fight for Quinn. New England promoter Sam Silverman thought he was doing his friend Jimmy O'Keefe, Quinn's manager, a favor. "This Marchegiano kid's got nothing. He can punch all right, but I've never seen a fighter as clumsy. The kid doesn't know what he's doing out there. Quinn won't have no trouble with him."
Rocky knocked Quinn out in the third round with a short right that knocked him completely off his feet.
Eddie Ross
Ross was 26-0 with 23 KOs. Rocky was 4-0. Again, Rocky was looked at as an easy win for a more experianced fighter.
Sam Silverman recalled, "Ross was classy. I figured Rocky was bound to get beat, and Ross was the kid to do it. I threw Rocky in to give this kid another win."
Rocky knocked Ross out in 1 minute and 3 seconds of the first round.
Carmine Vingo
Vingo had a 27-3 record. Rocky was 24-0. Vingo was 6'4" and came in at 187 pounds. Rocky weighed only 180 3/4 pounds. Vingo had reach, weight, and a slight edge in experiance. The fight was brutal, with both landing powerful punches, but in the 6th Rocky all but destroyed Vingo, knocking him out. Sadly, Vingo was badly hurt and had to be rushed to the hospital. He survived, but never fully recovered. from the beating.


Box Rec gives slightly different records for these guys but it is possible they couldn't verify all of these fights, or just different sources of info. Smiliar listings though.

Eddie Ross is listed as 15-0 with 13 kos.
Bobby Quinn as 8-0 5 kos
Vingo 16-1 7 kos, put into a coma
LaStarza 37-0, not the same after the stoppage.
Lowry was a highly experienced journeyman

Than there are bigger sluggers thrown in to probably see how Rocky would react to them. Wilson had the most passable record.

Jerry Jackson 254
Johnny Shkor 220 TKO 6
Bill Wilson 230 TKO 1

Layne 34-1, never been stopped. Had big wins over guys like Walcott. The Great White Hope, compared to Dempsey, favored over Rocky. Never the same after the big right caught him. Got a win over Charles though.

Matthews 81-3. Moving up in weight but got a good win over Layne. Got some losses toward the end of his career but was never stopped again after the Marciano fight.

Moore, undefeated for years. Moved up in weight but lost only twice more after Rocky, to Ali and Patterson respectively. Knocked out decent 200 lb heavies as well.

Charles and Walcott looking great against each other. On the decline but had many great wins before facing Rocky. They were both done after facing Rocky though. Walcott got killed dead by Rocky and looked terrifed in the rematch, already 39 he hung them up. Charles picked up a few solid wins but wasn't the same after he was stopped either.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1K3TbEuf404

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I85_VBCVs_c

Rocky beat other prospects, beat peers, beat favorites, and caught a couple legends after one took the title and the other was still game. Rocky doesn't take claim for the Louis win but he wasn't bad off as some make out to be either.

49 killers????

WOW DUDE....WOW, do you even know the history of your favourite fighter???LMFAOOOOOOO

Bobby Quinn wasnt 15-1, with 14 kos. he had an 8-0 record. here are the records of fighters he beat: 6-10-0, 25-19-9, 0-0-0, 3-3-0, 5-6-0, 3-5-0, 31-11-3 LMFAOOOO ......A JOKE OF AN OPPONENT

eddie ross wasnt 26-0 (WTF where you get your info???) he was 15-1, 9 of those opponents never fought before, 1 had 1-12 record, 1 had 1-3...you get the picture

carmen wasnt 27-0, he was 16-1 almost every fighter he faced had more losses than wins

again im not gonna get into it with you

you look at numbers you dont look at opponents, and you add more wins to them to make rocky seem greater than he was

"Rocky couldnt carry my jock strap" Larry Holmes

i completely agree larry

i repeat this again Rocky marciano had the most padded record of all heavyweigths, including foreman's early opponents.

rocky marciano is nowhere near top 10 greatest heavyweights