'Lennox Lewis is not an ATG' IronDanHamza

[Weltschmerz]

This is all I wanted. Something the other two posters somehow couldn't provide.

Now let's take a look should we?

Mike Tyson alone... is debatable. I think at least 50% of boxing historians like Poet so love to call them will have Lewis ahead of Tyson.
Very debatable

Now let's go on .
Willie Ritchie? Have any of you even seen him fight?

Frankie Burns who had 22 losses himself dominated him.

Although not much footage is on hand for Ritchie. Here is a quote regarding the Burns fight.

"Lost and Bewildered the Young Ritchie looked in the face of superior opposition".

'Superior Opposition' 22 lost Burns.


Ritchie himself got I think 15-19 draws.. That alone speaks of heavy mob influence and corruption.

He also amassed double digit losses PRIOR to him leaving his prime years.

Now he could have made up for this if he had over 50+ wins. Sadly he did not. The guy had only 38 wins..

Now if you change all his draws to WINS.. we might have a case for a 'good resume' sadly after researching him.. most of the draws were actually IN FAVOR OF HIM.. So out of the 15+ draws he had.. HE ACTUALLY DESERVED to lose at least 10 of them. :OO

I'm sorry.. He is not ranked higher than Lewis.

I have Vitali as one of Lennox' best wins. He's the best prime fighter he faced. But I agree a case can be made that Lewis ranks higher than Tyson. Tyson really lost against the two best fighters he faced, Holyfield and Lewis.

[WizardKO]

There's so many things wrong with this list. The guy who made it is probably dead.

[Panamaniac]

Everyone here has a sense of humour, you just aren't funny.

No harm done, as that's not my intent. You, on the other hand, are funny whether you intend to be or not - each time I see your avatar, I burst into laughter.

[WizardKO]

This is the history section.. so I feel like I can name 'ESB' without too much of a backlash.

That site's classics forums have a 200+ page on going discussion of top 100 P4P.

The classics section of that site is filled with intelligent boxing historians and they made great cases for all the fighters.

So far Lennox Lewis is ranked 96 overall and top 5 Heavyweight and they have had wonderfully written works to back their claims.


I think it is safe to say the 'history section' of ESB has been a LOT more active during recent years than it's counterpart here.. I'm not saying more activity= better thinkers. I'm just saying that there are a lot of former pro fighters and historians there who ranks Lewis very high.

I am also saying that it is perfectly acceptable to put Lennox in a top 100 List (overall rankings) ...

IronDanHazma can not list 100 fighters he have seen that he feels is greater than Lewis. Neither can the vast majority of the boxing world. It's just not mathematically possible.


10% of these fighters on some of the lists don't even have footage and have multiple questionable decisions under mob influence (all of which I can dig up)

[NChristo]

You're holding your own opinion higher then that of a proffesional writer but you're disregarding ours because we are not ?, bit contradictory. Could you post a list that does have Lewis in the top 100 please, shouldn't be too hard but would be fun too take it apart, unless we are below judging a 'proffesionals' list.

[NChristo]

There's so many things wrong with this list. The guy who made it is probably dead.

It's Burt Sugars list from 2011, plenty wrong with it, but the man was a proffesional writer, somehow.

[IronDanHamza]

I'll just copy the post from the other thread;

It's hard to say. They're perhaps more than 100 ATG's now. Depending on how you define great.

I don't have a Top 100 list. I have an off the top gauge of where I would rank a certain fighter. And I don't think Lewis would be in the Top 100, I don't know for sure, but, I'd doubt it.

I know for absolute certain that I could name 50 fighters above him and I don't think I'd be hard pressed thinking of another 50.

But can I say for certain without any question, 100 fighters head and shoulders, indisputably above Lewis? No. Because I don't have a list and I'm going off nothing more than off the top of my head which at my age is becoming less and less reliable.

But like I said, from what I gather I would doubt it.

If this makes me biased then so be it. But, I'm really not biased toward Lennox Lewis in any way what so ever.

I barely ever post about him, truth be told. For the whole 3 or so years I've been a member on here I've barely ever posted about him. The only reason I have posted about him recently is because someone said he has the best resume of the last 25 years and when someone see's something as outrageous as that, it's hard to just ignore.

Well, I don't have a Top 100 list so I can't name 100, for certain. But I'd imagine if I really tried, I could.

So, considering that, I wouldn't consider him an ATG. That said, I wouldn't deny that it's atleast up for debate.

Anyway, here's 50 off the top of my head;

Ray Robinson
Harry Greb
Sam Langford
Ezzard Charles
Henry Armstrong
Archie Moore
Carlos Monzon
Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Willie Pep
Whitaker
Joe Gans
B.Leonard
R.Leoanrd
Alexis Arguello
Bob Fitzsimmons
Emile Griffith
Mickey Walker
Eder Jofre
Jose Napoles
Gene Tunney
Jimmy Mclarnin
Roberto Duran
Barney Ross
Joe Walcott
Tommy Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Holman Williams
Charley Burley
Kid Gavilan
Sandy Saddler
Billy Conn
Carlos Oritz
Terry McGovern
Ted Kid Lewis
Jack Britton
Julio Cesar Chavez
Roy Jones
Maxie Rosenbloom
Harold Johnson
Manuel Ortiz
**** Tiger
Fighting Harada
Ruben Olivares
Jake Lamotta
Erik Morales
Marco Antonio Barrera
Floyd Mayweather
Manny Pacquaio
Bernard Hopkins
Evander Holyfield

I think that's 50 or 51.

That's without naming;

James Toney
Mike McCallum
Tito Trinidad
Oscar De La Hoya
Juan Manuel Marquez
Tiger Flowers
Sonny Liston
Larry Holmes
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Tony Canzoneri
Ike Williams
Bob Foster
Wilfred Benitez
Salvador Sanchez
Azumah Nelson

That's another 16 I'd rank ahead of him so that's 67.

And that's off the top of my head with very little thought. I'd imagine I could think of another 33. But that said, I won't deny it could be arguable.

[IronDanHamza]

I thought you said Lewis wan't an ATG anyway? But now it seems you think he certainly is

The reason I didn't post my list because I know exactly what you're going to, the same thing everyone does when they ask for these lists.

Highlight some names

Post "They aren't greater"

And then starts the long, tiresome circle.

[Scott9945]

This is the history section. Please refrain from insults. Also judging by that insult it will seem like you are way past your prime years as a man(definitely as a woman)

I'll make sure to enjoy college life even more so I don't regret anything when I'm 20 years past my due date and is only able to communicate via online forums on topics I think I know but actually know very little about.

Guess that ignore list was an empty threat, typical of clowns like you.

You are a troll disguising yourself as a pseudo boxing historian, when you are really just a drooling Lennox Lewis fanboy. I knew more than you about boxing 20 years ago, and I'll know more than you 20 years from now.

[NChristo]

No harm done, as that's not my intent. You, on the other hand, are funny whether you intend to be or not - each time I see your avatar, I burst into laughter.

Good !, I like to take my frustration out on BS if I've had a **** day and I've had a mega **** week, take it with a pinch of salt.