Ali IS tha man...

[Yogi]

no that's not what i did. i took their prime weight. johnson in his PRIME weighed 195-197 and ali weighed 212-213 in his PRIME in 1967.

LOL!

If somebody can't say Johnson was in his prime during the first couple of years of his title reign (when he routinely weighed around 205), when the hell was his prime?

I have footage of his fights against Burns and Jeffries (as well as others), and there's no way Johnson lost anything between those fights...In fact, I'm more impressed with his performance against Jeffries.

And Ali had a two fight & three month prime, is that what you're saying?

[Yogi]

Nice posting, Butterfly.

Why compliment that stuff, man?

Not only is there at least a couple factually inaccurate statements in there, but his "imagine what Ali would do to them" statement is completely laughable...It's like me saying, "if a light hitting, 195 pounder like Karl Mildenberger can hurt Ali to the body with a hook, just imagine what a MUCH harder hitting & bigger Joe Louis could do to Ali."

Butterfly looks at one side and one side only with these fantasy fights (spins them to favour his lover), and his logic is nothing but complete crap!

[Brassangel]

Whew! Sorry I haven't posted for a few pages, so I apologize if I touch on something already meantioned. I was at Lamaze classes with my wife for 3 1/2 hours.

I think that Butterfly did a decent job posting his retort, but it's clear that he spun the whole argument to look favorable for his favorite boxer of all time. If I'm not mistaken, Ali struggled in some of those matches listed above. Also, it seems as though Ali had the shortest "prime" career of any heavyweight champion when discussing situations where he struggled.

On a side note: in all fairness, Jeffries had close to 3 years off from the sport, as well as over 90 pounds to shed before his match with Jack Johnson. Were he not involved in some racial discrepencies, and had he stayed in the game, Johnson may never have beaten an athlete like Jeffries. This holds no relevence to the topic at hand, but it was a juicy bit of information I obtained from a Jeffries biographer. Oh yeah, Jack Johnson hovered around 205 in his prime. Ali was 210 when he was the true Butterfly in the ring. 5 pounds and 1 1/2 inches isn't enough to pass that off as Ali's route to victory. I do believe that Ali would beat Louis 2/2 times, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be tough for Ali either. Anything can happen in the ring.

I also believe that Yogi asked me a question somewhere along the line, but I didn't catch it. What did [you] want again?

[BKM-]

Joe Louis could beat EVERY fighter that has ever lived.

[LHWchamp5]

Where does chuvalo fit into all of this??

[moondog0]

Where does chuvalo fit into all of this??

I liked that comment that Ali had the shortest prime of all time, but he definately was in his prime when he beat Liston, who couldn't move any better than a petrified wooden rocking horse, and quit in his second fight by going down from the mystery punch, what a great fighter!

[moondog0]

And also, Joe Louis could have beaten any fighter that ever lived, and was a patriotic american, something that was never forgotten about him.

[butterfly1964]

LOL!

If somebody can't say Johnson was in his prime during the first couple of years of his title reign (when he routinely weighed around 205), when the hell was his prime?

I have footage of his fights against Burns and Jeffries (as well as others), and there's no way Johnson lost anything between those fights...In fact, I'm more impressed with his performance against Jeffries.

And Ali had a two fight & three month prime, is that what you're saying?

alright 205. but ali was still bigger than the guys johnson fought and faster than johnson as well.

also getting to what you said about ali's prime, he had a layoff. if that didn't occur, then his prime would have continued till probably about 1971.

[butterfly1964]

Why compliment that stuff, man?

Not only is there at least a couple factually inaccurate statements in there, but his "imagine what Ali would do to them" statement is completely laughable...It's like me saying, "if a light hitting, 195 pounder like Karl Mildenberger can hurt Ali to the body with a hook, just imagine what a MUCH harder hitting & bigger Joe Louis could do to Ali."

Butterfly looks at one side and one side only with these fantasy fights (spins them to favour his lover), and his logic is nothing but complete crap!

mildenburger is a hw. ketchel is a middleweight and conn is a light hw. BIG DIFFERENCE! i don't look at one side man, i see it for what it is!

[butterfly1964]

Whew! Sorry I haven't posted for a few pages, so I apologize if I touch on something already meantioned. I was at Lamaze classes with my wife for 3 1/2 hours.

I think that Butterfly did a decent job posting his retort, but it's clear that he spun the whole argument to look favorable for his favorite boxer of all time. If I'm not mistaken, Ali struggled in some of those matches listed above. Also, it seems as though Ali had the shortest "prime" career of any heavyweight champion when discussing situations where he struggled.

On a side note: in all fairness, Jeffries had close to 3 years off from the sport, as well as over 90 pounds to shed before his match with Jack Johnson. Were he not involved in some racial discrepencies, and had he stayed in the game, Johnson may never have beaten an athlete like Jeffries. This holds no relevence to the topic at hand, but it was a juicy bit of information I obtained from a Jeffries biographer. Oh yeah, Jack Johnson hovered around 205 in his prime. Ali was 210 when he was the true Butterfly in the ring. 5 pounds and 1 1/2 inches isn't enough to pass that off as Ali's route to victory. I do believe that Ali would beat Louis 2/2 times, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be tough for Ali either. Anything can happen in the ring.

I also believe that Yogi asked me a question somewhere along the line, but I didn't catch it. What did [you] want again?

ali was 212-213 in his prime. it was clear that he was better in 1967 than 1964. plus he hit harder and his punches were more accurate and he could take a punch better.