Ali IS tha man...

[Yogi]

you just posted the same god damn situation as before.. can you give another situation where ali wanted to quit... i think not

Yeah so?

Someone said to "find proof of any kind" in regards to Ali wanting to quit a fight and that's exactly what I did. I provided one source from his own trainer which speaks on the situation, and then followed it up with another source from a very respected writer which indicates Ali saying those words to him...

Is it so wrong to back up a primary source with a secondary source?

[Brassangel]

Yogi Is it so wrong to back up a primary source with a secondary source?

No. In fact, that's the proper way to handle a situation like this in a debate.

[Yogi]

No. In fact, that's the proper way to handle a situation like this in a debate.

No doubt that it is...but judging by the way he responded, it seems that the words of both Dundee & Plimpton has offended that Jazz fellow just a little bit.

Another worshipper in the 'Church of Ali' possibly?

*shrugs*

[Brassangel]

I think that a lot of Ali worshippers started watching the flood of "Classic Ali" during the summer of '05 and have been hooked ever since. I must admit, it was entertaining. There's no reason for these people to take such offense to comments that display his imperfections in the slightest way, however.

[Dempsey1238]

No doubt that it is...but judging by the way he responded, it seems that the words of both Dundee & Plimpton has offended that Jazz fellow just a little bit.

Another worshipper in the 'Church of Ali' possibly?

*shrugs*

"Church of Ali"

Thats a good one. Thinking about it, some boxers do have "Chruchs"

Marciano,
Louis,
Robinson,
Jones,
and others lol.

[hellfire508]

a) Ali did say that against Liston.

b) He went out there, ran for the round. Then came back out in 6 and schooled Sonny. SAying it and doing it are two different things.

c) He actually said, "I wanna prove to the world that there is dirty work afoot" - in addition to "cut the gloves off".

MUHAMMAD ALI TKO 7 SONNY LISTON

[Yogi]

c) He actually said, "I wanna prove to the world that there is dirty work afoot" - in addition to "cut the gloves off".

Yeah, I've read that "dirty work" quote before, but it still doesn't change the fact that Ali verbally stated that he wanted out of a situation, where others have ****** it up and continued on...Pages 206 to 208 of Skeehan's bio on Marciano speaks of Rocky being blinded in, not one single round like Ali, but a few rounds during the middle portion of the fight. Yet there's not one mention of Marciano wanting to take the easier way out of the fight...Here's some quotes from those pages;


'"There's something in my eyes" Marciano told Columbo in the corner (after the sixth round). "They're burning."

"My eyes are getting worse." Rocky said at the end of the seventh round. "Do something. I can't see."

"He's(Marciano) getting his brains knocked out." - Nicky Sylvester

"Rocky was taking a helluva pounding." - Izzy Gold, who along with Sylvester was a good buddy of Rocky's.

Marciano was being harmed. In fact, he was being battered. Only not into submission. For he kept coming forward relentlessly, always bringing the fight to Walcott.

Possessed by something too intense for description--determination, killer instinct, courage--all of these and something more. For Marciano had to win. It was all that mattered.

"Rocky believed he was blinded intentionally until the day he died," Peter Marciano said. "He spoke of it often."

Long after the fight, Rocky would become so convinced that there had been foul play that he accused Bocchicchio of rubbing a hot, irritant salve, a capsicum ointment, on Walcott's gloves and upper body. He made the charges in a story published in the Saturday Evening Post in October 1956, and the Curtis Publishing Company was promptly sued by Bocchicchio. But, based largely on testimony by Rocky's paesano Melchiore, a Pennsylvania jury belived the allegations and found in favor of the post...But right now Rocky was fighting for his life. He didn't know why it was happening. He only knew he was almost blind, and everything he'd ever dreamed and hungered for was slipping out of his grasp.

By the end of the ninth round, Marciano's eyes were clearing up.'


One fighter dealing with the exact same situation but for a longer period of time...Yet not one mention of him wanting to quit and many mentions of him sucking it up & continueing on, all the while "getting his brains knocked out"

[Yogi]

"In the sixth, as the stocky challnger came up out of his customary crouch with the fighters at close range, their heads cracked together and blood spewed from a deep cut on Marciano's forehead and from a gash on Walcott's left eye-lid. The champion's injury looked worse, but in the succeeding rounds it was Marciano who suffered. A combination of blood from his own cut and some form of medication used on Walcott's wound found it's way into Marciano's eyes, leaving him virtually blind and defenseless as Walcott ripped in hooks and uppercuts. Between rounds his corner team of Freddie Brown, Charlie Goldman and Aliie Columbo worked frantically, rinsing their man's inflamed eyes with small sponges soaked in cold water. By the ninth, the eyes had started to clear."

- page 96 of Harry Mullan's book, "The Ultimate Enclyclopedia of Boxing'

[hellfire508]

I understand that...but just because Ali said he wanted to quit - doesnt mean he did. Can you really imagine Ali not coming out? And nonetheless - he did come out. So there is no debate about it.

[Yogi]

I understand that...but just because Ali said he wanted to quit - So there is no debate about it.

Hellfire, this whole discussion started when someone said that "Ali wanted to quit", which prompted a response from someone challenging him to "find any proof of that", which is when I presented those quotes.