Ali IS tha man...

[Yogi]

i'm 17.

that doesn't mean he was scared to fight him.

I rounded off your age, Butterfly, seeing as you listed your birthday as Jan 24 or something like that.

Now I not saying this to be an ass, but as a boxing fan who seems to have a curiousity about boxing history, you really should read Brenner's book ("Only The Ring Was Square"), and not just for that whole Ali/Bobick story...The book isn't very long, but it is jammed full with a LOT of really good insider stories regarding many of the greatest fighters from the 50's to the 70's (the book came out in about 1981 or so).

I've read a whole bunch of boxing books, Butterfly, and believe me when I tell you it's one of the very best books I've read in regards to boxing/insider info not found anywhere else, and whatnot.

[butterfly1964]

I rounded off your age, Butterfly, seeing as you listed your birthday as Jan 24 or something like that.

Now I not saying this to be an ass, but as a boxing fan who seems to have a curiousity about boxing history, you really should read Brenner's book ("Only The Ring Was Square"), and not just for that whole Ali/Bobick story...The book isn't very long, but it is jammed full with a LOT of really good insider stories regarding many of the greatest fighters from the 50's to the 70's (the book came out in about 1981 or so).

I've read a whole bunch of boxing books, Butterfly, and believe me when I tell you it's one of the very best books I've read in regards to boxing/insider info not found anywhere else, and whatnot.

maybe i'll take you up on that.

[Yogi]

maybe i'll take you up on that.

Books are awesome, Butterfly, especially books that cover and deal with the great history of this sport we all love...I hope you do take the opportunity to read it some day soon (that goes for any boxing fan, actually).

[butterfly1964]

Books are awesome, Butterfly, especially books that cover and deal with the great history of this sport we all love...I hope you do take the opportunity to read it some day soon (that goes for any boxing fan, actually).

i read alot of books on muhammad ali. i also read frazier's autobiography.

[Yogi]

i read alot of books on muhammad ali. i also read frazier's autobiography.

Same here.

What Ali books have you read, Butterfly?

Off the top of my head, these are the ones I read in my lifetime and I'm assuming you've read most of them;

The Greatest: My Own Story
Sting Like a Bee (by Jose Toress)
Life and Times
The Fight (by Norman Mailer)
Shadow Box (By Plimpton, which is mostly an Ali book)
Facing Ali

Umm...probably one or two other ones, as well, but you'll have to forgive my memory as it's been some time since I did serious reading on Ali in a book that's mostly devoted to him. Well, I also read a book about the Thrilla a couple of years ago, but it was mainly one big fight report with a few chapters related to Ali & Frazier's relationship...All stuff that I've seen and read before on multiple occasions.

[Brassangel]

There's also a decent one just called, "Muhammad Ali" that has loads of photography in it; in case you're a little text-tired.

Joe Louis faced whoever the top contenders were at any given time. I don't care what era a fighter lives in, the top contenders are tough boxers. Ali faced a handful of big names and a slew of bums. Just because the names of Liston, Frazier, and Foreman are at the top of most top 10 lists doesn't mean that Ali's entire career was perpetually matched against top-notch opponents. Again, we need to avoid looking at one side of the pie here.

[butterfly1964]

There's also a decent one just called, "Muhammad Ali" that has loads of photography in it; in case you're a little text-tired.

Joe Louis faced whoever the top contenders were at any given time. I don't care what era a fighter lives in, the top contenders are tough boxers. Ali faced a handful of big names and a slew of bums. Just because the names of Liston, Frazier, and Foreman are at the top of most top 10 lists doesn't mean that Ali's entire career was perpetually matched against top-notch opponents. Again, we need to avoid looking at one side of the pie here.

yeah, i read that one.

[butterfly1964]

Same here.

What Ali books have you read, Butterfly?

Off the top of my head, these are the ones I read in my lifetime and I'm assuming you've read most of them;

The Greatest: My Own Story
Sting Like a Bee (by Jose Toress)
Life and Times
The Fight (by Norman Mailer)
Shadow Box (By Plimpton, which is mostly an Ali book)
Facing Ali

Umm...probably one or two other ones, as well, but you'll have to forgive my memory as it's been some time since I did serious reading on Ali in a book that's mostly devoted to him. Well, I also read a book about the Thrilla a couple of years ago, but it was mainly one big fight report with a few chapters related to Ali & Frazier's relationship...All stuff that I've seen and read before on multiple occasions.

out of those you mentioned i read the greatest: my own story, and facing ali.(great book)

[Heckler]

I think Ali was a great fighter, but the only fighter that was any good that he beat was Foreman. And he just outsmarted him, but beat him fair and square, Frazier was small, slow and had one punch, Norton beat Ali in every one of his three fights, get the trilogy and watch it, Sonny Liston was a convict
that never had one boxing lesson in his life, a media hype!

Norton beat Ali in 2/3 fights for sure. Ali beat FOREMAN - heaviest hitter of all time that No-1 at the exception of Ali in boxing history would ever beat. Frazier was extremely determined, had the ability to soak up punishment, good head and body movement, stamina and could throw bombs. Liston has boxing lessons inside, developed excellent BOXING not just slugging skills and was incredibly powerful. Learn a little before you start shooting your mouth.

[Heckler]

many fighters IMO would beat joe louis, he is IMO a bit overrated.

Many fighters would beat Joe louis - ummm no. I believe Joe would give Ali some serious trouble with his jab and power combos. However Ali win would because Joe was too conventional, and his shuffling inadequate footwork would be his downfall. Against Alis wit, resourcefulness, and fluid foot movement i think Joe would be a tad bewildered. Ali had superior stamina, a better jaw and i think over 15 rounds he would be able to reach down and pull out the extra to take the win in a close, extremely messy fight.