Who had better boxing fundamentals Muhammad Ali or Roy Jones jr

[Kid McCoy]

He lost his reflexes and his chin went to shyt, he could of been the most fundamental fighter ever he would still be getting knocked out left and right. Losing all that weight just killed him.

Also even without the big drop in weight how many boxers are still good at 35 and above with 50 pro fights under there belt?

As a light-heavy Roy's ring weight was in the 180s and he weighed 193 for Ruiz fulled clothed. That's hardly the kind of massive weight drop that will finish a guy's career.

[SCtrojansbaby]

As a light-heavy Roy's ring weight was in the 180s and he weighed 193 for Ruiz fulled clothed. That's hardly the kind of massive weight drop that will finish a guy's career.

Going from 193 to 175 is huge when you're 35 and in your 50th pro fight, if not the weight then what finished him? Did he just get old overnight, that's certainly a possibility.

Nobody in their right mind honestly believes Tarver was some kind super fighter that Roy had never seen before. Tarver was a basic 1-2 fighter no different then at least 20 other guys Roy had destroyed before

[BennyST]

Going from 193 to 175 is huge when you're 35 and in your 50th pro fight, if not the weight then what finished him? Did he just get old overnight, that's certainly a possibility.

Nobody in their right mind honestly believes Tarver was some kind super fighter that Roy had never seen before. Tarver was a basic 1-2 fighter no different then at least 20 other guys Roy had destroyed before

Although I sort of agree, there is a big difference. Tarver had a couple of things going for him that had shown to give Roy trouble. Most importantly, he was a big (ie. tall with reach etc), southpaw counter puncher with power. He had not seen anyone like that. He'd seen good fighters, some great, but no one with the exact small things that made Tarver so difficult.

Tarver didn't attack. That alone made it hard for Jones because he had to a lot more than usual. He was different than Jones had seen, but he wasn't better if that makes sense.

[SCtrojansbaby]

Although I sort of agree, there is a big difference. Tarver had a couple of things going for him that had shown to give Roy trouble. Most importantly, he was a big (ie. tall with reach etc), southpaw counter puncher with power. He had not seen anyone like that. He'd seen good fighters, some great, but no one with the exact small things that made Tarver so difficult.

Tarver didn't attack. That alone made it hard for Jones because he had to a lot more than usual. He was different than Jones had seen, but he wasn't better if that makes sense.

Tarver wasn't any bigger than southpaws Eric Harding and Derrick Harmon and Tarver didn't counter punch anymore then they did in their fights against Roy.

[Kid McCoy]

Going from 193 to 175 is huge when you're 35 and in your 50th pro fight, if not the weight then what finished him? Did he just get old overnight, that's certainly a possibility.

Nobody in their right mind honestly believes Tarver was some kind super fighter that Roy had never seen before. Tarver was a basic 1-2 fighter no different then at least 20 other guys Roy had destroyed before

Roy's ring weight for his light-heavy fights was around the 185 mark. His walk around weight was probably even closer to 193. That's an 8lb jump and he had eight months to lose it. I just don't see that as the kind of weight change that's going to ruin a fighter. And he did actually win the first Tarver fight.

No one's saying Tarver was that great. He just landed a Hail Mary type punch out of nowhere, a bit like Nunn-Kalambay. He probably couldn't replicate it if they fought another ten times. Jones had never been hit with a shot like that before.

[SCtrojansbaby]

Roy's ring weight for his light-heavy fights was around the 185 mark. His walk around weight was probably even closer to 193. That's an 8lb jump and he had eight months to lose it. I just don't see that as the kind of weight change that's going to ruin a fighter. And he did actually win the first Tarver fight.

No one's saying Tarver was that great. He just landed a Hail Mary type punch out of nowhere, a bit like Nunn-Kalambay. He probably couldn't replicate it if they fought another ten times. Jones had never been hit with a shot like that before.

Forget all the walking around weight and in ring stuff, he had to weight in at 175 which meant an 18 pound difference from his last weigh in. I don't see how an 18 pound difference isn't going to significantly hurt a fighter when they are 35 years old and in the 50th fight. It wasn't like Roy had gotten fat or whatever heavyweights blow up in weight all the time, Roy was shredded when he fought Ruiz and his body couldn't handle the weight loss it at that stage in his career.

That punch that Tarver KO'd Roy with wasn't any harder then the punch Lou Del Valle knocked him down with or the over hand right that Montell Griffin hit him with but forget the KO even in the first fight you could tell Roy was a shell of himself.

[SplitSecond]

why does everyone say roy jones wasn't a good infighter? he hurt plenty of opponents on the inside

[joseph5620]

Forget all the walking around weight and in ring stuff, he had to weight in at 175 which meant an 18 pound difference from his last weigh in. I don't see how an 18 pound difference isn't going to significantly hurt a fighter when they are 35 years old and in the 50th fight. It wasn't like Roy had gotten fat or whatever heavyweights blow up in weight all the time, Roy was shredded when he fought Ruiz and his body couldn't handle the weight loss it at that stage in his career.

That punch that Tarver KO'd Roy with wasn't any harder then the punch Lou Del Valle knocked him down with or the over hand right that Montell Griffin hit him with but forget the KO even in the first fight you could tell Roy was a shell of himself.

It's definitely a factor.

[joseph5620]

Roy's ring weight for his light-heavy fights was around the 185 mark. His walk around weight was probably even closer to 193. That's an 8lb jump and he had eight months to lose it. I just don't see that as the kind of weight change that's going to ruin a fighter. And he did actually win the first Tarver fight.

No one's saying Tarver was that great. He just landed a Hail Mary type punch out of nowhere, a bit like Nunn-Kalambay. He probably couldn't replicate it if they fought another ten times. Jones had never been hit with a shot like that before.

If Jones weighed over 180 for his light heavyweight fights I would be willing to bet it was the very low 180's.

[Shameful]

Matter of opinion on what is 'right' I think, but what each guy lacked, hell they made up for in god given talent.