Is this heavyweight climate the worst in history?

[JAB5239]

Excuse me, you said it weakens the devision. You still fail to explain how if the Klitschkos were to fight eachother, it would make the devision stronger.

If they fought eachother the other heavyweights aren't magically going to get better. The devision indeed sucks but no big fight between the brothers would do anything to change that except "clear the air". Plus both guys have very diffirent styles and attributes, I wouldn't neccecarily say the winner of this matchup is clearly the better guy because like you said Wladimir has the better resume but imo he'd lose to his older brother.

It does weaken the division just as it did every other time the two top fighters fail to get in the ring together. A winner establishes who is the more dominant of the two best fighters. And resume determines all time ranking, not who's better h2h. If the two best fighters are available to fight, they should fight. Obviously this is a more complex situation, but it still stands that it is better for boxing when this happens. One champion, a unified champion, is more recognizable to the general public and THAT is better for boxing. If you'd like I will put a poll up. I won't even put it here, I'll put it in NSB and I can promise that even the morons and nuthuggers will see things the same way I do. I'll bet you your 12 million points against my 100 million. Deal?

[BKM-2010]

It does weaken the division just as it did every other time the two top fighters fail to get in the ring together. A winner establishes who is the more dominant of the two best fighters. And resume determines all time ranking, not who's better h2h. If the two best fighters are available to fight, they should fight. Obviously this is a more complex situation, but it still stands that it is better for boxing when this happens. One champion, a unified champion, is more recognizable to the general public and THAT is better for boxing. If you'd like I will put a poll up. I won't even put it here, I'll put it in NSB and I can promise that even the morons and nuthuggers will see things the same way I do. I'll bet you your 12 million points against my 100 million. Deal?

This is not the same as "every other time" in fact these 2 are both champions, neither is a #1 contender. Check the facts. Again, when I say rest of the devision, I mean all the other heavyweights besides the Klitschkos. How are they gonna get better if the klitschkos fight eachother like you claimed? Lets say they do fight and Vitali wins. Wladimir is still going to dominate every other boxer not named Vitali. Vitali is still going to dominate everybody. The devision sucks(I actually agree with this just not the worst ever overall) and no big fight between the 2 brothers is going to change that. It would just create a huge buzz for the sport, but it won't change the fact that nobody even comes close to either of the 2.

And I disagree in this case. In most cases yes it would be the best thing to have 1 champion. but to have 2 brothers dominating is just as lucrative for the sport imo. I don't think it would be a diffirence if one Klitschko was the only HW champion and he got there by beating up his own flesh and blood. Like I said this is a very rare and special time for combat sports to have 2 brothers dominating.
As for your bet offer, I don't care enough about our personal disagreement so no. There's some MMA and boxing matches i'd like to bet on soon.

[BKM-2010]

No, I simply asked you to explain why you believe they were impressive opponents on Vitali's resume. I already know they are not. It doesn't require "work" and it's very simple to figure out. If you don't have an answer for your claims, say so. Instead of blowing it up into something it's not like you always do when you have no answers.

I already told you, I think they were good fighters based on their abilities and their rankings. That's just my opinion, and yours differs. You say you know all of his opponents and you already think they all suck, and that's where it ends for me, yet you still want me to make arguments as to why they're good, even though we both know that you will not agree to anything.

Why the HELL would I be wasting my time. It's pretty funny to me.

[joseph5620]

I already told you, I think they were good fighters based on their abilities and their rankings. That's just my opinion, and yours differs. You say you know all of his opponents and you already think they all suck, and that's where it ends for me, yet you still want me to make arguments as to why they're good, even though we both know that you will not agree to anything.

Why the HELL would I be wasting my time. It's pretty funny to me.

You wont because you don't have an answer. You flatly told me Adamek was not Vitali's best win. I asked who was Vitali's best win and you still haven't answered it. Just as you haven't answered what those fighters have done to make Vitali's quality of opposition impressive. Until you answer those questions, the joke is on you. Those fighters will never be remembered as quality heavyweight challengers and they dont enhance Vitali's legacy whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

[New England]

You wont because you don't have an answer. You flatly told me Adamek was not Vitali's best win. I asked who was Vitali's best win and you still haven't answered it. Just as you haven't answered what those fighters have done to make Vitali's quality of opposition impressive. Until you answer those questions, the joke is on you. Those fighters will never be remembered as quality heavyweight challengers and they dont enhance Vitali's legacy whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

slick boxing kirk johnson

taco truck financier chris arreola (who was literally about 35 lbs overweight for the biggest fight of his life)

danny williams (the guy beat friggin mike tyson!)

renegade pga golfer corrie sanders



in all seriousness vitali is a h2h hw and not one who has a strong resume.
going on resume alone it's very hard to even rank the guy. he does not belong on any historic tier in that sense. he's had a dominant but larely meaningless run. he lost his two biggest fights
but with his chin and his style/size he's a rough go at HW


i do think he'd lose a decision to most historic great HW



he does hold some pretty remarkable distinctions, though, that can make nice talking/discussion points
he rarely loses rounds. very rarely.
he's never been down or seriously hurt. he has had his face destroyed, though.

and my favorite and certainly the most irrelevant//fun:
his great win is a knockout over wladimir that will never get a chance to happen because they are brothers

i'd pick him to stop wladimir without much fuss
i dont even think it would be competitive.

irrelevant, obviously, but a fun little point none the less.

[JAB5239]

This is not the same as "every other time" in fact these 2 are both champions, neither is a #1 contender. Check the facts. Again, when I say rest of the devision, I mean all the other heavyweights besides the Klitschkos. How are they gonna get better if the klitschkos fight eachother like you claimed? Lets say they do fight and Vitali wins. Wladimir is still going to dominate every other boxer not named Vitali. Vitali is still going to dominate everybody. The devision sucks(I actually agree with this just not the worst ever overall) and no big fight between the 2 brothers is going to change that. It would just create a huge buzz for the sport, but it won't change the fact that nobody even comes close to either of the 2.

And I disagree in this case. In most cases yes it would be the best thing to have 1 champion. but to have 2 brothers dominating is just as lucrative for the sport imo. I don't think it would be a diffirence if one Klitschko was the only HW champion and he got there by beating up his own flesh and blood. Like I said this is a very rare and special time for combat sports to have 2 brothers dominating.
As for your bet offer, I don't care enough about our personal disagreement so no. There's some MMA and boxing matches i'd like to bet on soon.

Thats what I figured. You want to make outrageous claims but are afraid to gamble with imaginary e-points. Two brothers being the best is great. The two best fighters in the division not fighting sucks, especially when everybody else in the division blows.

[New England]

Thats what I figured. You want to make outrageous claims but are afraid to gamble with imaginary e-points. Two brothers being the best is great. The two best fighters in the division not fighting sucks, especially when everybody else in the division blows.

the more i try and seperate myself the more remarkable i find this aspect

in 50 years youngsters learning about boxing are going to be checking through the HW from the turn of the century and they'll find two brothers who unified the title and dominated a divsion together.

I think thats their legacy. that's a remarkable feet.

they're also pretty great men from what i gather. wladimir is the best spoken fighter in boxing and english is his fourth or fifth language.
hbo completely bailed on covering them (and showtime couldn't afford it) because of the styles, and thus they never had a chance to become stars over here.

i get a lot of guff over it but i'm glad to call myself a fan of both guys.

[joseph5620]

slick boxing kirk johnson

taco truck financier chris arreola (who was literally about 35 lbs overweight for the biggest fight of his life)

danny williams (the guy beat friggin mike tyson!)

renegade pga golfer corrie sanders



in all seriousness vitali is a h2h hw and not one who has a strong resume.
going on resume alone it's very hard to even rank the guy. he does not belong on any historic tier in that sense. he's had a dominant but larely meaningless run. he lost his two biggest fights
but with his chin and his style/size he's a rough go at HW


i do think he'd lose a decision to most historic great HW



he does hold some pretty remarkable distinctions, though, that can make nice talking/discussion points
he rarely loses rounds. very rarely.
he's never been down or seriously hurt. he has had his face destroyed, though.

and my favorite and certainly the most irrelevant//fun:
his great win is a knockout over wladimir that will never get a chance to happen because they are brothers

i'd pick him to stop wladimir without much fuss
i dont even think it would be competitive.

irrelevant, obviously, but a fun little point none the less.

I agree with you. Vitali can fight and he does have skills. But it's funny to me when people try to use his resume to rank him as an ATG.

[BKM-2010]

You wont because you don't have an answer. You flatly told me Adamek was not Vitali's best win. I asked who was Vitali's best win and you still haven't answered it. Just as you haven't answered what those fighters have done to make Vitali's quality of opposition impressive. Until you answer those questions, the joke is on you. Those fighters will never be remembered as quality heavyweight challengers and they dont enhance Vitali's legacy whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

Wrong. Check out the last page I already told you. Sam Peter and Corrie Sanders are his best wins. If you don't even know Vitali Klitschko's best win was against Sam Peter who held the WBC title and had never been stopped before, and this was after YEARS of inactivity for Vitali, and he just dominated him and made him quit, then you obviously don't know much about him or all the current fighters like you claim you do. What has Adamek done at HW besides beating Arreola? A couple wins against ancient guys like Grant and Golota. Or McBride. He was a good win because he's a good fighter, but not the best victory of Vitali's career. Deal with that.

Thats what I figured. You want to make outrageous claims but are afraid to gamble with imaginary e-points. Two brothers being the best is great. The two best fighters in the division not fighting sucks, especially when everybody else in the division blows.

What outrageous claim? The only outrageous claim to me is you saying a fight between the Klitschkos magically makes the whole HW devision better. Haha what are the other heavyweights gonna become more skilled just by watching the two brothers go at it? haha. The only thing that would fix the whole devision is if the whole sport itself starts to clean itself up.

[BKM-2010]

the more i try and seperate myself the more remarkable i find this aspect

in 50 years youngsters learning about boxing are going to be checking through the HW from the turn of the century and they'll find two brothers who unified the title and dominated a divsion together.

I think thats their legacy. that's a remarkable feet.

they're also pretty great men from what i gather. wladimir is the best spoken fighter in boxing and english is his fourth or fifth language.
hbo completely bailed on covering them (and showtime couldn't afford it) because of the styles, and thus they never had a chance to become stars over here.

i get a lot of guff over it but i'm glad to call myself a fan of both guys.

Well that's rare to see a historian who can actually give them some credit. I appriciate that. Just don't start mentioning their names with fighters back in the day around here though as a lot of people's blood level will rise up for no good reason.