Could anyone beat SRR at 147?

[StarshipTrooper]

Mayweather Jr. The same way Randy Turpin won the first time.

No sale. Floyd ain't in Robinson's league.....or in the league of any of the others we've talked about in this thread.

Poet

[NChristo]

Thought it would of been mentioned by now but, the Keed almost did it apparently, the fans didn't seem happy that Robinson got the decision in the 1st fight from what I've read. Give them a series of fights and he probably picks up 1 or 2 wins.

[moal]

No sale. Floyd ain't in Robinson's league.....or in the league of any of the others we've talked about in this thread.

Poet

Turpin wasn't all that and he basically done what Mayweather does best. Maybe Floyd might have a shot.

[BennyST]

For me its as clear as night and day lol Don't have me mistaken though, Ray did have a good chin in his prime but Robinson's chin was one of his best assets and easily one of the best in history. Not just that, but it was more tested at the higher weights than Leonard was. I mean he was in absolute wars against bigger guys like Fulmer, Lamotta ect and was not stopped in neither of those fights and correct me if I'm wrong, but other than Lamotta, I'm not sure if anyone else dropped Robinson during his prime to decent years. He could go up in weight and keep the same punch resistance while taking numerous head shots on a regular basis, can we say the same about Leonard? He played it safe against Hagler, and looked chinny against Hearns (rematch) and Ladalone. Robinson s chin stayed cast iron.



Should we even count the Maxim fight as Robinson being stopped? Like you said, it was due to heat and heat ONLY. He was giving him a boxing lesson and was nearly killed over from exhaustion. We should throw that one out. And yeah Ray was completely shot in the Camacho/Norris fights, just like Robinson was against Archer. I'm talking about their prime to decent years.

No, good point. Right you are.

However, a lot of the rest I don't really agree with. There's a big difference between the power punching Hearns and the relatively light punching Lamotta. I could easily see Hearns dropping him, but not keeping him there just as he did Leonard.

Their primes? I would absolutely say they were both iron chinned and unstoppable in their primes. Ray's chin was also one of his best assets. Tested by some of the truly most vicious fighters and tested very, very well. I would argue that having Hearns hit you with some perfect right hands is having your chin tested more than Robinson's ever was in his prime. Having a brilliantly conditioned, like the lightweight version of Duran testing your chin over and over without it breaking is another test well passed.

I still think, especially in their primes (as it wasn't until Leonard was inactive, shot or drug ****ed that he seemed to lose it), that they were both iron chinned beasts with very similar chins.

[slicksouthpaw16]

No, good point. Right you are.

However, a lot of the rest I don't really agree with. There's a big difference between the power punching Hearns and the relatively light punching Lamotta. I could easily see Hearns dropping him, but not keeping him there just as he did Leonard.

Their primes? I would absolutely say they were both iron chinned and unstoppable in their primes. Ray's chin was also one of his best assets. Tested by some of the truly most vicious fighters and tested very, very well. I would argue that having Hearns hit you with some perfect right hands is having your chin tested more than Robinson's ever was in his prime. Having a brilliantly conditioned, like the lightweight version of Duran testing your chin over and over without it breaking is another test well passed.

I still think, especially in their primes (as it wasn't until Leonard was inactive, shot or drug ****ed that he seemed to lose it), that they were both iron chinned beasts with very similar chins.

You are right about Hearns hitting harder than Lamotta, Fulmer ect, but at the same time those were single shots and most of the power was taken off of them by the upper middle rounds when Hearns started fading. To Ray's credit, he did take those bombs and Hearns is the hardest hitter in welterweight history. My point to you is that Lamotta layed a lot more leather on Robinson than Hearns layed on Leonard. And Jake wasn't particularly a big puncher, but you have to take into account that those fights were wars and the amount of damage that Robinson took from someone who hit him countless times. Its kind of like if someone asked me if i would wanna fight Alexis Arguello or Chavez. Even though Arguello hit harder, Chavez would be causing me more damage for the simple fact that he would be constantly pressing forward, would be willing to hit anything he sees and would be more relentless. Volume punchers will lay a lot more leather on you then someone that you have chase or would be hitting you with single punches.


Actually IMO, the only time Ray showed a truly iron chin is when he fought Hearns. Even when he fought Duran (who i heard him state was the hardest puncher he had ever fought) he was shook up quite a few times. I've never seen Robinson get hurt quite as much, certainly in one fight.

[Welsh Jon]

Did Stanley Ketchel fight at Welterweight?

I know if he did it was a very breif stay and consisted of almost nothing.

Wasn't he a welterweight until about 1906? I might be wrong about this. I think he had 30+ bouts at the weight. Almost all of which he won by KO. He fought only journeymen and lightweights I believe.

I remember reading somewhere that Abe Attell named Stanley Ketchel as the greatest welterweight of all time. This is clearly bull****, but does seem to suggest he must have spent some worthwhile time in the division.

I'm not trying to claim he had a world class resume at 147, just that a welterweight Ketchel must have carried some power.

[JAB5239]

Honestly, there are many fighters that could beat him and would give him great trouble either way. All of the best 147 guys, at their best, were monsters and all could give Robinson more than a good fight.

He had his problems with certain styles. A skilled inside fighter with speed and savvy, a fast boxer and a powerful boxer/puncher have all given him trouble throughout his career. In reality there are many fighters who could have beaten him at 147 on any given night.

I remember reading somewhere (can't remember where right now. I think it was SI) in an article that was asking this question to some great old trainers who had seen Robinson and they had said that they considered Mantequilla and Hands of Stone to give him the toughest fight and were two guys who could beat him on their best night. I would personally throw in Leonard and Hearns too. Napoles is another. McLarnin too, though he would have to lose first before winning.

Let's face it: the welterweights have probably the deepest level of talent along with the lightweight and middleweight division so to say anyone is unbeatable is crazy. Robinson gets closer than anyone else probably, but he would lose to fighters being listed here. There are just too many good fighters. Charley Burley was in Robinson's era and could have given him what for....?

Duran from the first Leonard fight is the first name I thought of. Good post!

[SCtrojansbaby]

Can someone provide me links to full fights of Sugar Ray Robinson at welterweight

[McGoorty]

Honestly, there are many fighters that could beat him and would give him great trouble either way. All of the best 147 guys, at their best, were monsters and all could give Robinson more than a good fight.

He had his problems with certain styles. A skilled inside fighter with speed and savvy, a fast boxer and a powerful boxer/puncher have all given him trouble throughout his career. In reality there are many fighters who could have beaten him at 147 on any given night.

I remember reading somewhere (can't remember where right now. I think it was SI) in an article that was asking this question to some great old trainers who had seen Robinson and they had said that they considered Mantequilla and Hands of Stone to give him the toughest fight and were two guys who could beat him on their best night. I would personally throw in Leonard and Hearns too. Napoles is another. McLarnin too, though he would have to lose first before winning.

Let's face it: the welterweights have probably the deepest level of talent along with the lightweight and middleweight division so to say anyone is unbeatable is crazy. Robinson gets closer than anyone else probably, but he would lose to fighters being listed here. There are just too many good fighters. Charley Burley was in Robinson's era and could have given him what for....?

I know I posted earlier, but I can't believe that I forgot,.... and so did the rest of you. But I have to throw his name in,... In my opinion there is one guy who was a monster at WW, and possibly the man with the tools to beat Sugar Ray Robinson...... MICKEY WALKER the forgotten Welterweight by the looks of things....... at WW Walker had the chin, the hand speed, a huge ****er, and the ability to dominate Ray on the inside,.. Mickey's intensity could be a real problem for Ray.... I don't see Walker trying to box for long, but the only way Ray keeps him off for long is by hitting hard enough to discourage Walker...... discourage Walker ???....... The big advantage I have for Walker is that I believe he is stronger than Ray, I believe that Walker was a near perfect WW, but he wanted the glory to be had in the Heavier divisions......... I just can't believe it took me this long to mention him........ he was a very great fighter.... period.

[McGoorty]

Can someone provide me links to full fights of Sugar Ray Robinson at welterweight

Full fights ???????...... most of Rays best fights at Welterweight never made the distance,.------ Sugar Ray Robinson knocked their blocks off usually well inside the distance. I've even seen film of Ray as an Amateur,...... by the way,.... you are an amateur,.... this last post proves that you are beyond doubt,... the history section's Pepe Le Pew.