Could anyone beat SRR at 147?

[BennyST]

Honestly, there are many fighters that could beat him and would give him great trouble either way. All of the best 147 guys, at their best, were monsters and all could give Robinson more than a good fight.

He had his problems with certain styles. A skilled inside fighter with speed and savvy, a fast boxer and a powerful boxer/puncher have all given him trouble throughout his career. In reality there are many fighters who could have beaten him at 147 on any given night.

I remember reading somewhere (can't remember where right now. I think it was SI) in an article that was asking this question to some great old trainers who had seen Robinson and they had said that they considered Mantequilla and Hands of Stone to give him the toughest fight and were two guys who could beat him on their best night. I would personally throw in Leonard and Hearns too. Napoles is another. McLarnin too, though he would have to lose first before winning.

Let's face it: the welterweights have probably the deepest level of talent along with the lightweight and middleweight division so to say anyone is unbeatable is crazy. Robinson gets closer than anyone else probably, but he would lose to fighters being listed here. There are just too many good fighters. Charley Burley was in Robinson's era and could have given him what for....?

[StarshipTrooper]

Honestly, there are many fighters that could beat him and would give him great trouble either way. All of the best 147 guys, at their best, were monsters and all could give Robinson more than a good fight.

He had his problems with certain styles. A skilled inside fighter with speed and savvy, a fast boxer and a powerful boxer/puncher have all given him trouble throughout his career. In reality there are many fighters who could have beaten him at 147 on any given night.

I remember reading somewhere (can't remember where right now. I think it was SI) in an article that was asking this question to some great old trainers who had seen Robinson and they had said that they considered Mantequilla and Hands of Stone to give him the toughest fight and were two guys who could beat him on their best night. I would personally throw in Leonard and Hearns too. Napoles is another. McLarnin too, though he would have to lose first before winning.

Let's face it: the welterweights have probably the deepest level of talent along with the lightweight and middleweight division so to say anyone is unbeatable is crazy. Robinson gets closer than anyone else probably, but he would lose to fighters being listed here. There are just too many good fighters. Charley Burley was in Robinson's era and could have given him what for....?

Could lose to some of them? Sure......but I'd favor Robinson to take 2 out of 3 against even the best of them. In a one off against any of them my money would be on Robinson. Certainly an upset is POSSIBLE, but there's a difference between possible and probable

Poet

[BennyST]

I call a SRR/SRL fight a pickem, and hes the one I'd say had the best chance. Robinson has more power and definitely the better chin, but Ray matches up with his speed pretty well, he had the better technique and the higher ring IQ IMO. Its a toss up for me.

I would absolutely disagree with that. I can't think of anyone with a better chin than Leonard (well, I can but Leonard was iron chinned and iron willed more importantly just like SRR), and it's certainly not Robinson. In fact, I would put them squarely in the same category. Can be stunned or put on their ass, Robinson much more frequently than Leonard though, but near impossible to stop.

Both were stopped once in their great careers, though Robinson's was due to heat, while Leonard's was due to idiocy and ego. No one can come back at 41/2 (or whatever it was) years of age after a 6/7 year layoff straight into a championship level fight and do well after his long drug problems. No muscle, not activity, no legs....If Robinson hadn't been active he would have been stopped numerous times in his last few years too, not the least by Joey Archer who had him all but out in their fight with a 9 count knock down....and that was only the second time ever in Archer's career that he had someone on the floor.

[BennyST]

Could lose to some of them? Sure......but I'd favor Robinson to take 2 out of 3 against even the best of them. In a one off against any of them my money would be on Robinson. Certainly an upset is POSSIBLE, but there's a difference between possible and probable

Poet

Yep, agreed. I'd take Robinson for the money, but would still consider a small bet on the underdog too.

[StarshipTrooper]

Yep, agreed. I'd take Robinson for the money, but would still consider betting on the underdog.

I guess it would depend on how high the odds were and how much I was prepared to lose :chuckle9:

Poet

[BennyST]

I guess it would depend on how high the odds were and how much I was prepared to lose :chuckle9:

Poet

Yes, true....I'd guess it would be enough that I'd still cover it if Robinson won anyway. Always the safe way to do things, unless you've got the type of odds that Tyson ended up having for him in which you basically didn't win anything when he won.

[slicksouthpaw16]

I would absolutely disagree with that. I can't think of anyone with a better chin than Leonard (well, I can but Leonard was iron chinned and iron willed more importantly just like SRR), and it's certainly not Robinson. In fact, I would put them squarely in the same category. Can be stunned or put on their ass, Robinson much more frequently than Leonard though, but near impossible to stop.

For me its as clear as night and day lol Don't have me mistaken though, Ray did have a good chin in his prime but Robinson's chin was one of his best assets and easily one of the best in history. Not just that, but it was more tested at the higher weights than Leonard was. I mean he was in absolute wars against bigger guys like Fulmer, Lamotta ect and was not stopped in neither of those fights and correct me if I'm wrong, but other than Lamotta, I'm not sure if anyone else dropped Robinson during his prime to decent years. He could go up in weight and keep the same punch resistance while taking numerous head shots on a regular basis, can we say the same about Leonard? He played it safe against Hagler, and looked chinny against Hearns (rematch) and Ladalone. Robinson s chin stayed cast iron.

Both were stopped once in their great careers, though Robinson's was due to heat, while Leonard's was due to idiocy and ego. No one can come back at 41/2 (or whatever it was) years of age after a 6/7 year layoff straight into a championship level fight and do well after his long drug problems. If Robinson hadn't been active he would have been stopped numerous times in his last few years too, not the least by Joey Archer who had him all but out in their fight with a 9 count knock down....and that was only the second time ever in Archer's career that he had someone on the floor.

Should we even count the Maxim fight as Robinson being stopped? Like you said, it was due to heat and heat ONLY. He was giving him a boxing lesson and was nearly killed over from exhaustion. We should throw that one out. And yeah Ray was completely shot in the Camacho/Norris fights, just like Robinson was against Archer. I'm talking about their prime to decent years.

[StarshipTrooper]

Yes, true....I'd guess it would be enough that I'd still cover it if Robinson won anyway. Always the safe way to do things, unless you've got the type of odds that Tyson ended up having for him in which you basically didn't win anything when he won.

But you cleaned up betting in Tokyo :hah9:

Poet

[GoogleMe]

There's always a possibility of a fluky result but as a general rule I don't see anyone pulling the trick. A prime Ray Leonard might have the best shot. Maybe Armstrong. Can't see Hearns doing it since he had his best shot of doing something along those lines in his first fight with Leonard and got KTFO.

Poet

I see Hearns getting KTFO, and Leonard has the better chance of getting the victory.

[moal]

Mayweather Jr. The same way Randy Turpin won the first time.