Joe Louis vs Larry Holmes

[Willie Pep 229]

You cazy blind man....... you search for and pull these old threads back up if they discuss a topic you can repeat your infamous lines on, to troll the history lovers. And SUPPORT YOU! A man needs a hobby.

You crazy blind man . . . Can't you see the advanced angles.

Makes me wonder who innovated these new fangled angles he is always on about. According to our mutual friend it had to come sometime after the 1980s. So we (he) should be able to point to the fighter/trainer who broke this 'new ground.' -- No?

But I think we have as much chance of him explaining that as we do of him listing his top ten HWs. Which I think Jab is still waiting to see.

Now on a serious note, nost agree that there were two distinct periods of technique. One being called the 'back foot era' (term used on this forum commonly) and then the post Dempsey period.

So was there a third major alteration in style/technique/approach to martial art of boxing that occurred since Dempsey?

Is Dempsey's style actually outdated? If so, when/who innovated this new style of fighting? I can't seem to see the period of transition he speaks of.

[Willow The Wisp]

Holmes would win. He would out jab and out land Louis, possibly knocking him down. It would a 10-5 score kind of fight. Louis of course land the bomb, but Holmes had one of the best chins at heavyweight. He would get up and use his legs to recover for the moment. Holmes was no fool in the ring. If Schmeling, Conn, Walcott ( same age as Louis ) and Charles could box Louis, so could Larry Holmes.

Ya. Though I rank Louis extremely high on my all-time list, I think Holmes would be one of the half dozen toughest fights possible for him. The Holmes who fought Gerry Cooney represents his very best to me, and that guy was tight! Gifted, serious, driven and tight! Of course, there's always room for a Snipes moment to happen; and if one ever did, Louis would finish it with those machine guns of his. Anyone's fight. The best of Louis was not the one struggling with HOFers Schmeling, Conn or Walcott; it was the one ripping their heads off and ****ting down their necks in the rematch. Remember that.

[Dr. Z]

Ya. Though I rank Louis extremely high on my all-time list, I think Holmes would be one of the half dozen toughest fights possible for him. The Holmes who fought Gerry Cooney represents his very best to me, and that guy was tight! Gifted, serious, driven and tight! Of course, there's always room for a Snipes moment to happen; and if one ever did, Louis would finish it with those machine guns of his. Anyone's fight. The best of Louis was not the one struggling with HOFers Schmeling, Conn or Walcott; it was the one ripping their heads off and ****ting down their necks in the rematch. Remember that.

He got lucky vs. Walcott the 2nd time and Conn the first time, Walcott got cute and nailed in the second fight well the lead I might add, and the 168 pound Billy Conn opted the slug after he staggered Louis in the 12th, when he stopped to moving and boxing as he did for the first 12 rounds which had him in the lead as well. Yeah he won, thanks to their ******ity. They were fighting a puncher with stamina is always dangerous.

But like I said, Holmes was nobody fool in the ring and he beat plenty of punchers taking next to no to rounds off or doing anything foolish in the ring.

Louis in a head to head fantasy fights doesn't rank highly, not as highly as Holmes does, but he does in a legacy sense thanks to his long tenured title run which had some questionable judging. You should see my ranking of heavyweights and timelines. It's rather good if I can say so. 15 heavyweights per time line are ranked.

[QueensburyRules]

He got lucky vs. Walcott the 2nd time and Conn the first time, Walcott got cute and nailed in the second fight well the lead I might add, and the 168 pound Billy Conn opted the slug after he staggered Louis in the 12th, when he stopped to moving and boxing as he did for the first 12 rounds which had him in the lead as well. Yeah he won, thanks to their ******ity. They were fighting a puncher with stamina is always dangerous.

But like I said, Holmes was nobody fool in the ring and he beat plenty of punchers taking next to no to rounds off or doing anything foolish in the ring.

Louis in a head to head fantasy fights doesn't rank highly, not as highly as Holmes does, but he does in a legacy sense thanks to his long tenured title run which had some questionable judging. You should see my ranking of heavyweights and timelines. It's rather good if I can say so. 15 heavyweights per time line are ranked.

- - All /\ negated by, 1-Lar ain't gonna fight a man having won his title in the ring, and 2-if he does 6x, Lar gonna go 0-6, 0 KO, and this is irrefutable though there are some capable of coming up with something pukable.

These proven facts, not some gummybear candy treats.

[Ivich]

Ya. Though I rank Louis extremely high on my all-time list, I think Holmes would be one of the half dozen toughest fights possible for him. The Holmes who fought Gerry Cooney represents his very best to me, and that guy was tight! Gifted, serious, driven and tight! Of course, there's always room for a Snipes moment to happen; and if one ever did, Louis would finish it with those machine guns of his. Anyone's fight. The best of Louis was not the one struggling with HOFers Schmeling, Conn or Walcott; it was the one ripping their heads off and ****ting down their necks in the rematch. Remember that.

Dr Zero's post.
He got lucky vs. Walcott the 2nd time and Conn the first time, Walcott got cute and nailed in the second fight well the lead I might add, and the 168 pound Billy Conn opted the slug after he staggered Louis in the 12th, when he stopped to moving and boxing as he did for the first 12 rounds which had him in the lead as well



The scores for the 1 st Conn fight.

ref: Eddie Joseph 5-7 Bill Healy 6-6 Marty Monroe 4-7

2nd Walcott fight.

ref: Frank Fullam 5-2 Harold Barnes 3-6 Jack O'Sullivan 4-5

Both fights could have been turned around.

The post below is irrelevant.
"The fact that the Ref had Louis way ahead 5-2 in the Walcott rematch is criminal."
What's relevant is theoretically Louis could have won both those fights by decision

[Dr. Z]

Dr Zero's post.
He got lucky vs. Walcott the 2nd time and Conn the first time, Walcott got cute and nailed in the second fight well the lead I might add, and the 168 pound Billy Conn opted the slug after he staggered Louis in the 12th, when he stopped to moving and boxing as he did for the first 12 rounds which had him in the lead as well



The scores for the 1 st Conn fight.

ref: Eddie Joseph 5-7 Bill Healy 6-6 Marty Monroe 4-7

2nd Walcott fight.

ref: Frank Fullam 5-2 Harold Barnes 3-6 Jack O'Sullivan 4-5

Both fights could have been turned around.

The fact that the Ref had Louis way ahead 5-2 in the Walcott rematch is criminal. Louis is being out classed in the rounds shown. Yet Frank Fullam thinks Louis was not only ahead , but way ahead. As I stated not the judging in suspect in quite a few cards of Louis and not justified at all in the rounds shown on film.

[Willow The Wisp]

He got lucky vs. Walcott the 2nd time and Conn the first time, Walcott got cute and nailed in the second fight well the lead I might add, and the 168 pound Billy Conn opted the slug after he staggered Louis in the 12th, when he stopped to moving and boxing as he did for the first 12 rounds which had him in the lead as well. Yeah he won, thanks to their ******ity. They were fighting a puncher with stamina is always dangerous.

But like I said, Holmes was nobody fool in the ring and he beat plenty of punchers taking next to no to rounds off or doing anything foolish in the ring.

Louis in a head to head fantasy fights doesn't rank highly, not as highly as Holmes does, but he does in a legacy sense thanks to his long tenured title run which had some questionable judging. You should see my ranking of heavyweights and timelines. It's rather good if I can say so. 15 heavyweights per time line are ranked.

I'd like to. Post it up again brother.

[Dr. Z]

I'd like to. Post it up again brother.

I will. It is edited to update the 2004-2034 era. You should be able to see it soon. It will be in its own thread and should bring out all types. A known historian / writer is checking over it now.