H2H who was the greatest Super-Middleweight ever

[CarlosG815]

I know all of this. And even with a massive tangerine sized blood clot in his brain he still battered Benn to near death, Benn was as near death as Mcclellan was after that fight and Mcclellan's brain was imploding. I cannot realistically see anyone having Benn on this list without Mcclellan who probably would have damn near killed him if it wasn't for the blood clot he had been carrying since the first Jackson fight. It kicked in around round 3 and Mcclellan was still ahead on the scorecards and in much better physical shape than Benn, who was down and out shortly before the stoppage >.<

So you are claiming him to be the greatest super middleweight h2h based on one fight (that he lost)?

[Wild Blue Yonda]

It's Jones, & by some distance, for me.

I think he'd handsomely defeat most of the listed men here at 168lbs. Even Calzaghe, who I'd have in the #2 spot, would provide a moderately-difficult challenge for Jones (something like 8-4 on the cards), & not much more. One or two others may fare a little better, but they'd probably lose to Calzaghe in turn.

You would have to say, Calzaghe deserves the nod from an achievements perspective, as the greatest Super-Middle champion in its short history, but head-to-head, Jones would've bested him, & all the rest.

[Jim Jeffries]

Joe Calzaghe and Jones are practically the same age, and I believe the same result would occur any time they fought.

We know Roy Jones was a steroid user in his prime. In a fair testing environment, he would lose everytime to Calzaghe.

Calzaghe was a hell of a lot closer to prime when he fought Jones. Roy hit his in his mid to late 20's, Joe in his mid 30's (or at least that's when he stepped up his competition.)

You can think Joe could beat Roy prime for prime all you want. But you certainly can't use their fight as justification for that opinion.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Calzaghe was a hell of a lot closer to prime when he fought Jones. Roy hit his in his mid to late 20's, Joe in his mid 30's (or at least that's when he stepped up his competition.)

You can think Joe could beat Roy prime for prime all you want. But you certainly can't use their fight as justification for that opinion.

Agreed. Calzaghe had, in all probability, passed his peak by the time he fought Jones, & was nearing the end of the road --- but that's a relative thing from fighter-to-fighter. He never got near to being as past-it as the Jones he gave a drubbing to. Their fight, in all fairness to both fighters, means as much as, say, Marciano-Louis, in terms of the distance between prime years at the time they were paired.

No one could use much of anything from that fight to argue Marciano always had Louis' number, & similarly, you'd have to start from scratch to explain why Calzaghe would've been too good for the Jones of more than ten years prior to their actual meeting.

I'm not one (as some are) to say Jones gives Calzaghe a complete licking, mind --- I do think it's a somewhat competitive fight, & there will be times when Jones is genuinely flustered (the early & late rounds would probably be the times he has the most trouble, IMO), but I can't honestly see Calzaghe actually beating Jones, unless it's a one-off result in a series of battles.

Jones was just simply the better fighter.

[Joeyzagz]

Agreed. Calzaghe had, in all probability, passed his peak by the time he fought Jones, & was nearing the end of the road --- but that's a relative thing from fighter-to-fighter. He never got near to being as past-it as the Jones he gave a drubbing to. Their fight, in all fairness to both fighters, means as much as, say, Marciano-Louis, in terms of the distance between prime years at the time they were paired.

No one could use much of anything from that fight to argue Marciano always had Louis' number, & similarly, you'd have to start from scratch to explain why Calzaghe would've been too good for the Jones of more than ten years prior to their actual meeting.

This is false. The age gap between Marciano and Louis was the size of the grand canyon. Joe Louis was north of 35 and Marciano was 28, which is absolute peak human performance for athletes.

Zags and Roy were both north of 35 when they fought. Fair game.

[Obama]

This is false. The age gap between Marciano and Louis was the size of the grand canyon. Joe Louis was north of 35 and Marciano was 28, which is absolute peak human performance for athletes.

Zags and Roy were both north of 35 when they fought. Fair game.

You don't seem to understand that age and prime are not the same. People have been washed up by their mid 20s.

Other's don't even enter their prime until their 30s.

[StarshipTrooper]

I would point out that prime years differ from fighter to fighter and you can't use a universal template and force every fighter to fit it. There's also a big difference between being past prime and being completely washed up. Jones was obviously washed up after the Tarver-Johnson debacles.

Poet

[Toe Injury]

You don't seem to understand that age and prime are not the same. People have been washed up by their mid 20s.

Other's don't even enter their prime until their 30s.

"prime" makes sense in golf or a sport where you're playing against your own score and can measure progress or decline but in boxing it's just wild speculation because opponents can make a fighter look bad

actual age > theorized "prime" in boxing

[StarshipTrooper]

actual age > theorized "prime" in boxing

It doesn't work like that in athletics and to suggest that it does is to presume everyone has the same body which they don't. People need to stop trying to reduce these things to some kind of mathematical one-size-fits-all formula: These are human being we're dealing with not machines. Everyone is different ffs.

Poet

[Kid McCoy]

"prime" makes sense in golf or a sport where you're playing against your own score and can measure progress or decline but in boxing it's just wild speculation because opponents can make a fighter look bad

actual age > theorized "prime" in boxing

Boxers don't peak and decline at the same rate. Benitez and Cuevas were both world champions in their teens and finished at world level by their mid-20s. Similar story with Tyson who peaked and declined at a young age. By contrast Moore, Foreman and Hopkins were world champions in their 40s.