H2H who was the greatest Super-Middleweight ever

[JAB5239]

If SCtrojanman keeps posting here then he must:

1. have a horrible inability to catch a hint


Poet

I believe him to just be young and uninformed. Though I disagree with much he has said he doesn't seem like a bad guy. Lets cut him some slack and hopefully he'll keep an open mind.

[Spartacus Sully]

weak list id have to go with jones but at 160-168 id pick fitzsimmons langford and greb to beat him.

[SCtrojansbaby]

Take a third out for taxes, a cut for your corner every fight, travel expenses, training expenses, sparring partners etc., etc., and there really isn't a lot left to live on when you're trying to support a family. The overwhelming majority of fighters are in the same boat. Unless you're an elite fighter or one with a huge following you simply aren't getting rich. Do you really think a few hundred thousand is enough to live on without having any other income coming in?

Its not enough to live on if you don't buy a house and a car when you get the chance. The only way peter manfredo would need to have a "day job" right now is if he made bad decisions and or his manager/accountant made bad decisions. The point is not only did the Peter Mafredo's before Don King and Ali were make peanuts, even the Carl Frochs and Alexander Povetkins were making peanuts. Top fighters now don't have training camp for 4+ weeks for no reason it prepares you the best way possible.

My point being its safe to say just about all of Manny Pacquioas or Roy Jones last 20 or 30 some opponents were full time fighters who prepared for the fight very very few of them were weekend warriors. While the majority of Ray Robinson and Joe Louis opponents(not named Lamotta or Marciano) were weekend warriors.

[BennyST]

Its not enough to live on if you don't buy a house and a car when you get the chance. The only way peter manfredo would need to have a "day job" right now is if he made bad decisions and or his manager/accountant made bad decisions. The point is not only did the Peter Mafredo's before Don King and Ali were make peanuts, even the Carl Frochs and Alexander Povetkins were making peanuts. Top fighters now don't have training camp for 4+ weeks for no reason it prepares you the best way possible.

My point being its safe to say just about all of Manny Pacquioas or Roy Jones last 20 or 30 some opponents were full time fighters who prepared for the fight very very few of them were weekend warriors. While the majority of Ray Robinson and Joe Louis opponents(not named Lamotta or Marciano) were weekend warriors.

No, it wouldn't be because he made bad decisions, it's because like most fighters he has never had much for the large majority of his fights. Getting a few thousand, or even for his bigger fights getting some tens of thousands is jack **** these days. Where in the hell do you think someone like him would be earning 500,000?

Being on the Contender got you **** all unless you were second or first. He got eliminated in the first round from memory so got next to nothing. Endorsements? I think you have a very misguided view of what these guys get. Manfredo is very unlikely to have any endorsements at all. Some of the guys who get the temporary tattoo on their back for a fight get about 20,000 from those huge casinos. That's all. You have to be a major name for that to happen anyway.

Unless you're a huge name fighter you just don't make much money. I think you've been following guys like Roy Jones, Pacquiao, Mayweather etc too long because all of those big name guys combined make up about .01% of boxing's pros and they are the only ones who genuinely become well off from it. The majority of good pros of a typical contender status have day jobs and would very, very rarely make over 20, 30, 40,000. Even world champs struggle to make that much for their fights unless they are on a major undercard on a big network such as Showtime and HBO. If they are not on a major undercard on a big network, they won't even be getting over 20 to 30,000 for title fights. They have three fights a year and they are making what would equate to a half decent wage that would be just enough to live on if you have a family etc.

Marquez now famously made only a little over 30,000 as one of boxings biggest names after fighting Pac. Do you think before that fight he was earning 100,000 or more every fight? Up to the Pac fight he had probably only earned a couple hundred thou over his whole career and this is, and was, one of the most respected well known pros in the game.

Other top fighters make their living as boxing trainers. I know Daniel Geale, an Aussie world titlist now who has fought Mundine, and just beat Roman Karmazin etc still trains kids five days a week. Ivan Calderon runs a gym and makes his living that way to fortify what he makes from boxing. It just doesn't work the way you think it does.

Earning 500,000 over an entire career is very rare and hardly any pros do that.

The vast amount of pros will work for their entire careers. Take this Aussie contender DANIEL "BABYFACE" IANNAZZO. He's a good, solid contender and has won various titles like the WBO Asia Pacific title and others and is a very respectable 18-1. He has a bunch of news articles, and other press stuff about him. Compared to most, he's a great boxer with a very good career. However, he still works a day job and earns **** all from boxing and not close to enough to stop working and no doubt never will. His dream is not have to work.

Another guy is Will Womlinson who is one of Australia's rising stars and fights for a world title very soon still works as a chef. These guys are some of the world tops fighters when you are talking about all pros. They are in the very small % of guys who fight at world level and fight for titles and they all still work day jobs. You count the number of guys who can only do boxing and earn a good living from it and it is absolutely minimal.

Another top guy, Lenny Zappavigna the current IBO titlist who just beat Ji Hoon Kim doesn't have any sponsorship deals and piles of endorsement money coming to him. He has a world title shot for the IBF title coming up. Boxing just doesn't work that way though. This is one of the worlds genuine top fighters with huge hype, has had major news stories on him etc with a title and he doesn't have any sponsorship or endorsement. Making 500,000 is incredibly rare and even most name fighters who hold some form of world title won't get it over their career. Zappa can live off boxing, but he's been on major TV now, huge undercards, and still the only reason is because he also lives at home and is supported by his parents and doesn't have a family etc to feed otherwise he would most definitely be needing a part time job.

Apart from Zappa, who lives at home and is supported that way, I can go through all the top fighters here and basically every single one not named Michael Katsidis and Vic Darchinyan have day jobs. Every single one. These are guys with various minor titles from IBO world title, to National titles to up coming major world titles.

Sam Soliman, fought all sorts of big fights and it wasn't until after he fought Mundine and other top rated, highly hyped guys that he eventually signed with Goosen Tutor that he was able to focus only on boxing and that was before the Winky Wright fight from memory. So, again, he was a well know world rated fighter with various titles and still couldn't live off boxing alone for the majority of his career. Now, after huge fights with Mundine, Wright etc he's still fighting and gets absolutely jack **** for his fights. Wouldn't get close to keeping him well off after his stops.

Or, if you think that because they are Aussie fighters; A huge name, top ranked pound for pounder in Rafael Marquez didn't even get 25,000 as a champion against top ranked, highly touted fighter Silence Mabuza. 25,000 was the full purse bid for that fight, so that's what they split between them somehow. So, maybe he got 18,000-20,000? The Willaimson and Byrd heavyweight fight? They got the full purse bid of 400,000. Byrd got about 325,000 and Williamson only 75,000. They pay off their managers, trainers, promoters, tax....How much are you left with? Williamson maybe 20,000, Byrd maybe 100,000 if they're lucky after everything else?

[NChristo]

On the subject of money.

Matthew Saad Muhammad and Marvin Johnson were big names known for their exciting fights and never give up attitude, there was an article I read a while a go which said they only made 6k or so max a piece for each of their wars, both of which were title fights.

For the amount of suffering they both went through only 6k is nothing, boxers don't get paid near what people think they do.

[BennyST]

On the subject of money.

Matthew Saad Muhammad and Marvin Johnson were big names known for their exciting fights and never give up attitude, there was an article I read a while a go which said they only made 6k or so max a piece for each of their wars, both of which were title fights.

For the amount of suffering they both went through only 6k is nothing, boxers don't get paid near what people think they do.

Exactly, Saad now a HOF legend and in his prime years and biggest world championship fights he was making 6k. This is normal. Guys that make over 10k for a fight are doing bloody well. Guys that make more than that are simply very rare and it hardly ever happens. As I pointed out in that essay above, you have a guy like Darryl Williamson fighting for the heavyweight championship of the world making 75k all up before tax, manager/promoter/trainer/cutman etc etc fees and it cuts it down to probably around 20,000 if he's lucky. They just don't make much and hardly any of them can ever live off it.

[JAB5239]

Its not enough to live on if you don't buy a house and a car when you get the chance. The only way peter manfredo would need to have a "day job" right now is if he made bad decisions and or his manager/accountant made bad decisions. The point is not only did the Peter Mafredo's before Don King and Ali were make peanuts, even the Carl Frochs and Alexander Povetkins were making peanuts. Top fighters now don't have training camp for 4+ weeks for no reason it prepares you the best way possible.

My point being its safe to say just about all of Manny Pacquioas or Roy Jones last 20 or 30 some opponents were full time fighters who prepared for the fight very very few of them were weekend warriors. While the majority of Ray Robinson and Joe Louis opponents(not named Lamotta or Marciano) were weekend warriors.

With all due respect SC, you seem very naive about money in the real world and the actual details of boxing history.

[needyuoo]

Sons of Anarchy---Worth Watching!!

That is great!

[Anthony342]

You know, as a goof, I almost voted for Sven Ottke.