What if Vitali's comeback opponent had been Jack Dempsey?

[Die Antwoord]

Vitali's performances against the out of shape and one-dimensional Peter and Arreola fooled some people, but can anyone say they were impressed with him in the Sosnowski, Gomez and Kevin Johnson fights? I think those fights show that he is there to be taken if a true contender with real potential shows up, which might not happen in the current day and era. But that was the point of the thread, to put today's Vitali against a hungry, young contender like Dempsey of the Willard fight. It's not "trolling".

"Klitschko, 38, looked his age for most of the fight, throwing slow shots and having to rely mostly on his jab to control the younger 31-year-old Sosnowski."

"Klitschko seemed to tire somewhat when Sosnowski, 13 centimetres shorter and 23 pounds lighter than the champion, resumed his attack in the seventh and eighth rounds."

I can't see Sosnowski lasting 3 rounds with a prime Vitali.

Im not talking about the Sosnowski fight. Clearly Vitali has aged significantly over the last 2 years. Im talking about the Peter fight. Fact is Vitali is 39 and hes not cherry picking guys and losing to the likes of Tommy Machine Gunn HIV, he is beating everyone and not losing a round. Hes 39, has over 100 pro fights if you could kick boxing, hes had serious injuries that 20 years ago would have ended his career...what more do you expect? Hes clearly not prime, Vitali never really had a prime when he seemd to be coming into his own he got severely hurt. He started pro boxing very late compared to other fighters and he started concentrating on boxing very late as well.

Vitali still finished all of those guys and other than Kingpin whose one goal seemed to be to finish the fight, Vitali has stopped all of his opponents since returning.

Vitali might look aged now, but against Peter, to me that is abotu as good as he has ever looked. Ive seen the fight several times and Vitali just mercilessly beat him. The guy had no shot.

[Steak]

Ive never been impressed with Dempsey honestly. Maybe he would hurt Vitali early, but thats probably it.

I can imagine this being comparable to Sanders-Vitali.

[louis54]

dempsey in the first.

[Scott9945]

your having a laugh here...
who has Vitali fought who was a big puncher?
who has Vitali fought who can put combinations together?
who has Vitali fought who is `Fleet-Footed"?
who has Vitali fought who hit him on the chin so as to prove that he has a "Brilliant-Chin" like you claim..

Vitali Klitschko has only ever fought `Tomato-cans, Journeymen and a couple of fringe contenders who was on their way down... Face up to the facts & evidence which is in front of you instead of coming out with ridiculous assumptions made up by you to improve your nuthugging agenda... ask yourself the questions i have put to you above, then try to claim that he is an ATG... Vitali is no better than Willard or Carnera..

Vitali has fought Lennox Lewis and Corrie Sanders, two of the hardest punching heavyweights ever. That should answer two of your redundant and pointless questions. Anyonw who compares the Klitschko's to Carnera or Willard is a buffoon who hates the brothers. Of course you're actually delusional enough to think that little glass jawed Floyd Patterson would have beat them.

[JAB5239]

Vitali has fought Lennox Lewis and Corrie Sanders, two of the hardest punching heavyweights ever. That should answer two of your redundant and pointless questions. Anyonw who compares the Klitschko's to Carnera or Willard is a buffoon who hates the brothers. Of course you're actually delusional enough to think that little glass jawed Floyd Patterson would have beat them.

While I think he is better, I think Vitaly fights in a VERY similar fashion to Carnera.

Both Bros are good fighters, its their competition thats awful and giving the impression to their fans they're better than what they are. Would they be top 10 fighters in any era? Sure. would they be dominant as they are in todays era? Not likely. Just my opinion old friend.

[Boogie Nights]

While I think he is better, I think Vitaly fights in a VERY similar fashion to Carnera.

Both Bros are good fighters, its their competition thats awful and giving the impression to their fans they're better than what they are. Would they be top 10 fighters in any era? Sure. would they be dominant as they are in todays era? Not likely. Just my opinion old friend.

Due to this place flooding with posters who have severe biase and no clue of what they're talking about i only post here every few weeks or so. However you at least seem to have some voice of reason and objectivity in your posts, as does GreatA, so ill shoot you a quick response.

While i agree that the division is probally the worst as it's ever been, you cant create the double standard for other fighters, as you seem to comfortably do. You dont think marciano fought cans? He was still facing guys 61-56, 13-15, 30-13, 12-14, when he already had well over 30 pro fights, im not even gonna go into the opponents he faced prior to that. Not to mention the guys that he fought who warranted him the ATG status, were not only old, but over the hill. You can argue that all you want, but it's the reality.

George Foreman is a close runner up to marciano as the guy with the most padded record. Before facing Frazier he was already 37-0, 5 bouts less than Vitali has now, and the only recognizable names he beat were Peralta, and the tough Chuvalo, who was really a tough gatekeeper, or even a trialhorse. George's comeback career helped him greatly, but as his record stood before, it doesnt even compare to Wlads or Vitali, with the same number of opponents faced. Again you can argue, but it doesnt change what's there.

How about Jack Dempsey, who did he beat that makes him a top 5 heavy on most people's lists. Wladmir easily has a better title reign than he did. He beat Williard, in an impressive fashion, sandwhiched that with a couple of durable light heavyweights, keeping the title hostage for years afterwards, not fighting a single black contender during his reign (ducking, whether for his manager or fault of his own, doesnt matter), and then getting slaughetered twice by the best fighter he faced. He was also flattened in a round by Fireman Flynn who was 36-19-17, if either brother lost to someone with that record, posters here would verbally take his head off, post giffs, put hundred pics in their signatures, and all that jazz.

I can go on and on, but im sure the devoted boxing partisans will find a way to counteract that and call me a nuthugger who's obsessed with size. But really im just tired of all the shyt you guys are flushing on Klit brothers, and many of you had shown extreme biase. Im fair and objective, and all those guys i criticised, Foreman, Marciano, Dempsey i have in my top 10 heavys.
And something else you might find hard to believe, is that im a bigger fan of those guys than i am of Klitschko brothers.

[TheGreatA]

Due to this place flooding with posters who have severe biase and no clue of what they're talking about i only post here every few weeks or so. However you at least seem to have some voice of reason and objectivity in your posts, as does GreatA, so ill shoot you a quick response.

While i agree that the division is probally the worst as it's ever been, you cant create the double standard for other fighters, as you seem to comfortably do. You dont think marciano fought cans? He was still facing guys 61-56, 13-15, 30-13, 12-14, when he already had well over 30 pro fights, im not even gonna go into the opponents he faced prior to that. Not to mention the guys that he fought who warranted him the ATG status, were not only old, but over the hill. You can argue that all you want, but it's the reality.

George Foreman is a close runner up to marciano as the guy with the most padded record. Before facing Frazier he was already 37-0, 5 bouts less than Vitali has now, and the only recognizable names he beat were Peralta, and the tough Chuvalo, who was really a tough gatekeeper, or even a trialhorse. George's comeback career helped him greatly, but as his record stood before, it doesnt even compare to Wlads or Vitali, with the same number of opponents faced. Again you can argue, but it doesnt change what's there.

How about Jack Dempsey, who did he beat that makes him a top 5 heavy on most people's lists. Wladmir easily has a better title reign than he did. He beat Williard, in an impressive fashion, sandwhiched that with a couple of durable light heavyweights, keeping the title hostage for years afterwards, not fighting a single black contender during his reign (ducking, whether for his manager or fault of his own, doesnt matter), and then getting slaughetered twice by the best fighter he faced. He was also flattened in a round by Fireman Flynn who was 36-19-17, if either brother lost to someone with that record, posters here would verbally take his head off, post giffs, put hundred pics in their signatures, and all that jazz.

I can go on and on, but im sure the devoted boxing partisans will find a way to counteract that and call me a nuthugger who's obsessed with size. But really im just tired of all the shyt you guys are flushing on Klit brothers, and many of you had shown extreme biase. Im fair and objective, and all those guys i criticised, Foreman, Marciano, Dempsey i have in my top 10 heavys.
And something else you might find hard to believe, is that im a bigger fan of those guys than i am of Klitschko brothers.

About that, Wladimir did lose to Ross Purritty, and gets a pass for it despite being the same age and having the exact same record and experience as Joe Louis against Max Schmeling the first time, a loss that is brought up frequently to put down Joe.

[Scott9945]

While I think he is better, I think Vitaly fights in a VERY similar fashion to Carnera.

Both Bros are good fighters, its their competition thats awful and giving the impression to their fans they're better than what they are. Would they be top 10 fighters in any era? Sure. would they be dominant as they are in todays era? Not likely. Just my opinion old friend.

Other than me thinking that Vitali is miles better than Primo, that sounds very reasonable Jab. Personally I always put a cap on these type of debates because (unlike Mayweather-Pacquaio) there is zero chance of anyone ever being proven right or wrong.

[TheGreatA]

Anyway, I agree to an extent about the opposition Dempsey, Marciano and other greats have faced, certainly there were many that did not belong in the ring with them, but I feel they also overcame greater challenges than the Klitschko brothers have. I do not doubt that Wladimir could beat Archie Moore, but it was a very difficult task for a 180-190 lb man. Similarly, destroying Willard and Fulton the way Dempsey did is very impressive for a man of his size.

When it comes down to it, Wladimir's best win is over Chris Byrd, who is not a big heavyweight by today's standards, while Vitali's is over 38 year old Corrie Sanders.

[Boogie Nights]

About that, Wladimir did lose to Ross Purritty, and gets a pass for it despite being the same age and having the exact same record and experience as Joe Louis against Max Schmeling the first time, a loss that is brought up frequently to put down Joe.

yeah, but considering that Wladimir was green and fights absolutely nothing the way he does today, and was beating the holy shyt out of purity prior to the stoppage id say it's a little bit different. I was comparing it to the fashion in the way Dempsey lost and not Louis, but i hear what you're trying to say.