Who Would You Take Out The IBHOF?

[BennyST]

I already wrote what I think about his win* over Jose Medel. He outpointed Jofre when Jofre was 29 and then 30 , 7 years older than himself , thought it matters a lot in these weights especially . And why didn't you ask me what do I think about his win over Katsuo Saito ?
And besides , I did not claim Fighting Harada should be taken out of HOF , although it is not a bad idea . Alan Rudkin , Bernado Caraballo , Antonio Herrera and Katsutoshi Aoki ? what do you think about Harada's wins over them ? can you share it here ? Pone Kingpetch ? Harada caught him in the right time , after his prime ended. Not blaming him for being born 8 years later , nor it was a bad win , but not one of the most telling. Hiroyuki Ebihara ? a fine win over an inexperienced fighter.
A one trick pony fighter at that , according to such forum's standards.
Leonard whom is 2 years younger than Hagler is accused of fighting a past it Hagler , Lennox Lewis , 1 year older than Tyson may be rightfully accused of waiting for Tyson to age. Evander Holyfield had a shadow over his first reign because he never gained it from Tyson , he is 4 years older than Tyson , yet even today , when Holyfield starts getting his credit , his win over Tyson may rightfully be not considered a win over Tyson in his prime.

Ok. What do you think of Saito?

Did you say Kingpetch was at the end of his prime? Ummm, he was right in the middle of his peak fighting the best he ever had. He had just beaten the legendary Pascual Perez twice and would go on to beat Ebihara after Harada and regain the Flyweight title twice.

Ebihara himself....Considering they both had the same amount of fights and experience, it was what it was. A great win over a future HOFer when both were at the start of their careers.

Do you know anything about Rudkin, Caraballo, Medel, Aoki and Herrera? Surely you'd know about Rudkin being the UK. He was a heroic figure. You'd have to remember his and McGowan's fights?

I don't know see what Ray Leonard, Mike Tyson and The Fat Jamoc have to do with the 60's era of bantamweights. What I can tell you though is that Hagler retired straight after losing to Leonard and Mike Tyson was shot and never have another good win from Holyfield to Lewis. You're comparing that to Jofre and Medel and Kingpetch who all went onto beat legendary fighters and who had all just beaten greats too?

Do you know what Jofre went on to do for the next ten years after losing to Harada? He beat some of the greatest ever FW's and never lost another fight winning the FW title in the process.

One thing you need to consider greatly with boxing Frank: Age is completely irrelevant to different fighters. Foreman won the HW title at 45, 20 or so years after winning it the first time. Duran won the MW title at 37, 17 years after winning the LW title. Benitez beat the great HOFer Cervantes at 17, HOFer Palomino at 20 and was getting knocked out by a 13-1 Davey Moore at 25. Because he was younger than Cervantes, Palomino etc etc, does it mean his wins don't count?

Medel is considered one of the greats to never win a title. Between '59 and '67 he lost only a few fights. To Jofre, Harada, Ray Asis and Manny Barrios. The last two he avenged and both were excellent contenders of the day...ie. they were better than guys like Malignaggi today. As I said, they were his only losses between '59 and '67 and in that time he beat greats such as Jesus Pimental, Harada, Sadao Yaoita, Jose Lopez etc. Not exactly past it.

Caraballo was one of the great fighters of that time. Beat such greats as Pascual Perez, Carlos Miranda, Pinto, who was undefeated at 50-0 and was one of the great Brazilian fighters. Piero Rollo etc etc. His only loss in fifty fights was to Jofre before Harada.

This is getting boring.....Do you even know any of these guys? Because I know that all you're going to do is say "They are all **** wins and don't mean anything. None of them are any good and I've never even heard of them. I looked on boxrec and they have like ten losses! PWN lamo!!!"

Herrera beat Joe Brown and Ismael Laguna. Great fighter
Rudkin was a great fighter. Ask one of the old Green Teefs here about him. They'll all remember him well.
Aoki was a great fighter too, and this was probably during one of Japan's great run of fighters. They were all over the lower weight classes at that time and were all damn good. You could pick and choose between a bunch of other guys though....Dwight Hawkins was very good, Ray Asis was very good, Nobuo Chiba was good, Saito was good. These were all top contenders....You know? Top contender back then is the same as a titlist now. Good fighters for the most part, some better, some ok, some very good. But all world class.

Imagine Ali's HW era. That is what Harada's BW era was. That's how good it was. All the guys were ****ing incredible fighters all fighting at the same time and all fighting each other. The standouts were Harada and Jofre and they are serious greats who fought and beat everybody and ruled in the toughest BW era ever.

It really doesn't get that much better than Harada who is one of the greats of the game and one of the most brutal offensive machines to ever fight. Period.

[frankenfrank]

Ok. What do you think of Saito?

Did you say Kingpetch was at the end of his prime? Ummm, he was right in the middle of his peak fighting the best he ever had. He had just beaten the legendary Pascual Perez twice and would go on to beat Ebihara after Harada and regain the Flyweight title twice.

Ebihara himself....Considering they both had the same amount of fights and experience, it was what it was. A great win over a future HOFer when both were at the start of their careers.

Do you know anything about Rudkin, Caraballo, Medel, Aoki and Herrera? Surely you'd know about Rudkin being the UK. He was a heroic figure. You'd have to remember his and McGowan's fights?

I don't know see what Ray Leonard, Mike Tyson and The Fat Jamoc have to do with the 60's era of bantamweights. What I can tell you though is that Hagler retired straight after losing to Leonard and Mike Tyson was shot and never have another good win from Holyfield to Lewis. You're comparing that to Jofre and Medel and Kingpetch who all went onto beat legendary fighters and who had all just beaten greats too?

Do you know what Jofre went on to do for the next ten years after losing to Harada? He beat some of the greatest ever FW's and never lost another fight winning the FW title in the process.

One thing you need to consider greatly with boxing Frank: Age is completely irrelevant to different fighters. Foreman won the HW title at 45, 20 or so years after winning it the first time. Duran won the MW title at 37, 17 years after winning the LW title. Benitez beat the great HOFer Cervantes at 17, HOFer Palomino at 20 and was getting knocked out by a 13-1 Davey Moore at 25. Because he was younger than Cervantes, Palomino etc etc, does it mean his wins don't count?

Medel is considered one of the greats to never win a title. Between '59 and '67 he lost only a few fights. To Jofre, Harada, Ray Asis and Manny Barrios. The last two he avenged and both were excellent contenders of the day...ie. they were better than guys like Malignaggi today. As I said, they were his only losses between '59 and '67 and in that time he beat greats such as Jesus Pimental, Harada, Sadao Yaoita, Jose Lopez etc. Not exactly past it.

Caraballo was one of the great fighters of that time. Beat such greats as Pascual Perez, Carlos Miranda, Pinto, who was undefeated at 50-0 and was one of the great Brazilian fighters. Piero Rollo etc etc. His only loss in fifty fights was to Jofre before Harada.

This is getting boring.....Do you even know any of these guys? Because I know that all you're going to do is say "They are all **** wins and don't mean anything. None of them are any good and I've never even heard of them. I looked on boxrec and they have like ten losses! PWN lamo!!!"

Herrera beat Joe Brown and Ismael Laguna. Great fighter
Rudkin was a great fighter. Ask one of the old Green Teefs here about him. They'll all remember him well.
Aoki was a great fighter too, and this was probably during one of Japan's great run of fighters. They were all over the lower weight classes at that time and were all damn good. You could pick and choose between a bunch of other guys though....Dwight Hawkins was very good, Ray Asis was very good, Nobuo Chiba was good, Saito was good. These were all top contenders....You know? Top contender back then is the same as a titlist now. Good fighters for the most part, some better, some ok, some very good. But all world class.

Imagine Ali's HW era. That is what Harada's BW era was. That's how good it was. All the guys were ****ing incredible fighters all fighting at the same time and all fighting each other. The standouts were Harada and Jofre and they are serious greats who fought and beat everybody and ruled in the toughest BW era ever.

It really doesn't get that much better than Harada who is one of the greats of the game and one of the most brutal offensive machines to ever fight. Period.

Was Ali ever stopped like Harada was ? I am not suggesting he was better P4P , because he had that size advantage that Harada did not have , but is that comparison OK P4P ? no. Harada was also on the verge of being stopped in his "win" over Medel. Maybe Jofre is the one who should have been compared to Ali . If only he had those Ropes , extremely hot weather and Dundee in his first fight against Harada , he would have probably been remembered as the GOAT BW by all , which he is because he probably did not cheat that much.
But I did not mention Harada as a candidate to remove out of HOF. It was Lionel Rose and he is not in IBHOF only WBHOF. Not that I knew which was the more exclusive by the time I posted it because I was never interested in who is in the HOF and who is not and neither was I interested about HOF governing authorities .

[BennyST]

Was Ali ever stopped like Harada was ? I am not suggesting he was better P4P , because he had that size advantage that Harada did not have , but is that comparison OK P4P ? no. Harada was also on the verge of being stopped in his "win" over Medel. Maybe Jofre is the one who should have been compared to Ali . If only he had those Ropes , extremely hot weather and Dundee in his first fight against Harada , he would have probably been remembered as the GOAT BW by all , which he is because he probably did not cheat that much.
But I did not mention Harada as a candidate to remove out of HOF. It was Lionel Rose and he is not in IBHOF only WBHOF. Not that I knew which was the more exclusive by the time I posted it because I was never interested in who is in the HOF and who is not and neither was I interested about HOF governing authorities .

What the **** are you talking about?



Just forget it. You haven't got a clue. Go away.

[McGoorty]

I often hear people say lots of fighters shound't be in the IBHOF.

Name them!

I can't and I wouldn't dare, they are there because everybody saw them fight and they were great, they're records back it up, I'll be interested to see any 2011 fan deny any of them, Some these posters sound like they never been in a punch up cos they claim lots but sound like clots trying to compare moderns to 20 rd fighters let alone the Peter Jackson's who fight 60, as I have said before and I'm certain that I'm right, that a viking or Alexander the Great would Kill Roy Jones in a fight to the death with their bare hands. A Spartan or a Saxon or a Mongol for instance are the purest form of warrior,... one loss ans you're a DEAD man,..... Purity,,.. and you can quote me on that.

[McGoorty]

Today I read a thread here and stumbled upon the name : "Lionel Rose".
Always thought it was some boxing "historian/writer" but it was given as an example of a fighter so I went straight to boxrec to check what I don't know.
And the outcome was :
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...1513&cat=boxer

This should be the first removal as far as I currently know from the HOF.
I was never even interested in who is the HOF and who is not but this one gave it a new low.

Don't be too hard on Lionel Rose, he has just passed away recently and IS a Hall of famer because for a start he his the first ever World Champ his race ever had, Rose is a hero to millions, I remember Tyson once said Rose was one of Mikes hero's. To omit Rose is to denigrate Ruben Olivares and Fighting Harada who are in the HOF, Olivares because he got his belt from Rose and obviosly Harada was a great Fly and Bantam. Personally I Think the great Aboriginal Dave Sands was a far better fighter, but who ever beat death. One thing, if I was you I wouldn;t say a bad word about Lionel in Victoria or most places in Oz cos some people here LOVE Lionel and you should see his fights, a real good technician and he was undisputed champ for over 2 years, where are your titles ??

[McGoorty]

His biggest achievements were the MD win over the far from great fighting Harada and a SD which :

Also : He retired aged 28. So how many of his losses are you going to blame on his too late retirement ?
He is a member of the World Boxing Hall Of Fame , probably not what you wrote. So are there too corrupt sanctioning bodies ? I assume that yes.

His record proves he was nowhere near a tremendous fighter.

I'll correct you again,, Harada was undisputed Fly and Bantam world champion, so a great fighter, ROSE was even better than FH. Lionel was a far from perfect man but he was a GOOD MAN and I still don't think you paid any attention to films and besides boxing greatness has several levels and definitions, Rose was a GREAT technician, if you disagree then you don't know good when you see it.

[McGoorty]

Lol, far from great? I would really like to hear more of your opinion on Harada, but I fear you know nothing more of him than an incomplete boxrec resume.

good one Jab, keep on jabbin' the fools when they say VERY SILLY Things like a two Weight division undisputed Champion, RING said he was the best Flyweight for 6 or somethin years and one of the shortest boxers to ever live, let's beat the bias out them.

[McGoorty]

Old Timer - Last bout no earlier than 1893; no later than 1942
Lou Ambers
Baby Arizmendi
Abe Attell
Max Baer
Jimmy Barry
Benny Bass
Battling Battalino
Paul Berlenbach
James J. Braddock
Jack Britton
Lou Brouillard
Panama Al Brown
Tommy Burns
Tony Canzoneri
Georges Carpentier
Kid Chocolate
Joe Choynski
James. J. Corbett
Young Corbett II
Young Corbett III
Johnny Coulon
Eugene Criqui
Les Darcy
Jack Delaney
Jack Dempsey (Nonpareil)
Jack Dempsey
Jack Dillon
Dixie Kid


George Dixon
Jim Driscoll
Johnny Dundee
Sixto Escobar
Jackie Fields
Bob Fitzsimmons
Tiger Flowers
Joe Gans
Frankie Genaro
Mike Gibbons
Tommy Gibbons
George Godfrey
Harry Greb
Young Griffo
Harry Harris
Len Harvey
Pete Herman
Peter Jackson
Joe Jeannette
James J. Jeffries
Jack Johnson
(Gorilla) Jones
Rocky Kansas
Louis (Kid) Kaplan
Stanley Ketchel
Johnny Kilbane
Frank Klaus
Fidel LaBarba
Sam Langford
George (Kid) Lavigne
Benny Leonard
Battling Levinsky
Harry Lewis
John Henry Lewis
Ted (Kid) Lewis
Tommy Loughran
Benny Lynch
Joe Lynch
Jack McAuliffe
Charles (Kid) McCoy
Packey McFarland
Terry McGovern
Jimmy McLarnin
Sam McVey
Sammy Mandell
Freddie Miller
Billy Miske
Charley Mitchell
Pedro Montanez
Owen Moran
Battling Nelson
Kid Norfolk
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Billy Papke
Billy Petrolle
Willie Ritchie

Maxie Rosenbloom
Barney Ross
Tommy Ryan
Jack Sharkey
Tom Sharkey
Jimmy Slattery
Mysterious Billy Smith
Billy Soose
Freddie Steele
Young Stribling
Charles (Bud) Taylor
Lew Tendler
Marcel Thil
Gene Tunney
Pancho Villa
(Barbados) Joe Walcott
Mickey Walker
Freddie Welsh
Jimmy Wilde
Jess Willard
Kid Williams
Harry Wills
Ad Wolgast
Midget Wolgast
Teddy Yarosz

Now that is what I call A LIST of incredible men if ever I ever I saw one. Looking at this I'd have 'em all in and could maybe come up with a few more, there are some fighters from the era not there that did some remarkable things but are now almost completely forgotten, here's a name I've never seen posted ever the Australian Tommy Uren who'd beaten some big names, Uren was a welterweight with an impressive record which featured wins over some top American WW's, if I remember rightly, Uren fought Eddie McGoorty about 5 times winning 4 and losing one. I think ( memory don't fail me now ) that among other victims who he fought 3 or 4 times were Chip, Clabby and Jeff Smith which is impressive to me, these guys were the real deal and are one of the reasons why Greb and Darcy are so highly regarded today as they are common victims, though I'm not real sure if Greb fought Clabby but he certainly beat the others,............... anybody got something to add on UREN ????

[McGoorty]

Another disturbing name , this time IBHOF : Bob Foster.
Definitely undeserving .
If he deserves it then almost every past champion does.

SO,............. that's why you're banned,,,,,,,,, you surely were thinking about some other Bob Foster after all it's a common name,......... what were you thinking ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????

[New England]

easy


joe cortez